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55mm micro nikkor on a digital body
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: 55mm micro nikkor on a digital body Reply with quote
I have a nikon d70s (1,5 crop factor) and I'm planning to modify (add a cpu inside) a 55mm f:3,5 micro nikkor to use on this body.

55mm has 1:2 magnification ratio but since the film (ccd) plane is smaller by 1,5 times, does it mean magnification ratio will rise by 1,5 times.

I know this is the case for viewing angle (55mm*1,5)but guess that it won't be so for magnification ratio since 1:2 size of the real object will still be projected on to the CCD regardless of the crop factor.

I'm confused and any help will really be appreciated.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It will simply go to a 3:4 factor instead than 1:2. Btw, I don't see much the need to put a chip inside a macro lens. AF is almost useless in macro (and focus confirm still works in Nikon digitals) while perfect exposition can be found with a couple of test shots (and better than automatic).

Last edited by A G Photography on Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have used a Micro 2.8/55 on a D80 and focus confirmation works perfectly in Aperture Priority. I did not check the magnification rates though.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with Alessandro, autofocus is not really useful for macro photography.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The chip would be to allow metering rather than AF. Only the semi-pro and pro-Nikons meter non-cpu lenses.

I use a 55mm/3.5 and can't recommend it highly enough. There are some reports that the 2.8 version has a tendency to develop oiled blades more easily. It's worth looking out for the PK13 extension tube to take you closer.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Put a chip into any Nikkor lenses silly idea really.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Put a chip into any Nikkor lenses silly idea really.


Why? It makes metering possible on models lower than the D200/300 and apart from collectors lenses has no detraction in s/h value.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think a couple of test shoot really fine, I had no metering on D50 I never missed it. Currently I have metering on Olympus E-1 but most of the time I have to modify manually.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the same experiences of Attila, both on Nikon d80 and Olympus e 410. I go on both with completely manual all the time (even if with the Oly I can use aperture priority) and rarely I miss a shot. With automatic exposure I usually have a lot more times that I need to reshot because there are some zones burning or other zones too dark.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can't speak for Nikons or Olympii, but I get pretty good results with the metering in a Canon and, other things being equal, I'd certainly rather have it than not.

As for the magnification ratio, 1:2 is 1:2 regardless of the camera the lens is on. The difference is 1:2 of a 15x22 frame is a smaller object than 1:2 of a 24x36mm frame; so with the crop camera you will get a larger magnification of the object onto a given size print.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:
It will simply go to a 3:4 factor instead than 1:2. Btw, I don't see much the need to put a chip inside a macro lens. AF is almost useless in macro (and focus confirm still works in Nikon digitals) while perfect exposition can be found with a couple of test shots (and better than automatic).


A CPU chip has nothing to do with autofocus.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ChrisLilley wrote:
A G Photography wrote:
It will simply go to a 3:4 factor instead than 1:2. Btw, I don't see much the need to put a chip inside a macro lens. AF is almost useless in macro (and focus confirm still works in Nikon digitals) while perfect exposition can be found with a couple of test shots (and better than automatic).


A CPU chip has nothing to do with autofocus.


It has with focus confirmation, but the Nikons already have it for manual lenses.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll not mod the lens with CPU for AF but just for exposure capability.
I know test shots are OK esp with the ease of using digital but putting a cpu inside a suitable lens is very easy.
I modded my MIR 24N with a cpu and I use it more frequently after the modification because it is easier to use now.
Just compose and shoot and always get consistent exposure.
Anyway I understand that 55mm f3,5 is not a very advisable lens. Though I'm going to mod and use it. I'll also try to figre out the magnification ratio on a digital body.
Thanks a lot for all replies


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
yucel wrote:

Anyway I understand that 55mm f3,5 is not a very advisable lens.

??

yucel wrote:

I'll also try to figre out the magnification ratio on a digital body.

?????

Sorry, I can't understand either of these.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
yucel wrote:
I'll also try to figre out the magnification ratio on a digital body.


As I stated above is simple math:

1:2 (original magnification ratio) x 1.5 (crop factor) = 3:4


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:
ChrisLilley wrote:
A G Photography wrote:
Btw, I don't see much the need to put a chip inside a macro lens. AF is almost useless in macro (and focus confirm still works in Nikon digitals) while perfect exposition can be found with a couple of test shots (and better than automatic).


A CPU chip has nothing to do with autofocus.


It has with focus confirmation, but the Nikons already have it for manual lenses.


Focus confirmation is unrelated to autofocus.
A CPU chip has nothing to do with autofocus.
A CPU chip has nothing to do with focus confirmation.

What a CPU chip *will* do is tell the camera what focal length and max aperture your lens is, which will then show up in the exif data. It can also use this for center-weighted or spot metering, if you chose to use that (but it does not force you to, manual is still available of course). It may, depending on chip, also give you matrix metering.

Lastly, (on consumer Nikon models, ie not D200 and up) it will require you to set the aperture ring to minimum aperture and set aperture on the body.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
yucel wrote:
I'll also try to figre out the magnification ratio on a digital body.

1:1 mean that 1cm photographed is 1cm on the film/sensor
when you set the macro lenses to 1:1, you will record the size of the sensor
6x6 on MF, 24x36mm on FF, less on cropped body


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
I agree with Alessandro, autofocus is not really useful for macro photography.


I agree with everyone that autofocus is not useful for macro photography.

However, the original poster was not asking about autofocus; they are asking about a manual focus lens, used on a Nikon body.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: 55mm micro nikkor on a digital body Reply with quote
yucel wrote:
I have a nikon d70s (1,5 crop factor) and I'm planning to modify (add a cpu inside) a 55mm f:3,5 micro nikkor to use on this body.


The 55mm f/3.5 micro-nikkor lens is a good one. Its a 'pre-AI' lens which means you should be careful mounting it on the D70s; in theory it is not compatible. I will let a D70 user comment on whether this is actually a problem in practice. The later 55mm f/2.8 micro-nikkor is an Ai lens and will mount safely.

In case you are not aware, if it mounts, the micro-nikkor will work on your D70s already, without modification. However, you will need to set the camera to M mode, and set both the aperture (with the aperture ring) and the shutter speed (on the camera) yourself without any metering. The exif data in your image will show the shutter speed, but the aperture and focal length will be empty. If you use any mode other then M, your D70s will tell you that there is no lens attached. You will be able to use flash, but in manual mode not TTL mode.

If you successfully add a CPU (which also involves changing the mount for one with a contact block, or adding a contact block) then the following things change:

* you have to set the aperture ring to the minimum aperture, and set aperture on the camera body
* the focal length and aperture will be recorded in the exif data
* you can use A mode (and S and P, although you are unlikely to want to for macro photography)
* you can use centre-weighted and spot metering
* you may be able to use matrix metering
* you can use TTL flash

You will not, contrary to what some other postings indicated, magically transform the lens to autofocus not does it affect the focus confirm light in any way, which already works on non CPU lenses.

Its worth noting that you will need to get a CPU from a lens that has 55mm (or close) focal length. Also, there needs to be room to physically fit the cpu and its flexible circuit board. Macro lenses tend to be cramped inside and may contain light baffles, so fitting the chip might be tricky.

yucel wrote:
55mm has 1:2 magnification ratio but since the film (ccd) plane is smaller by 1,5 times, does it mean magnification ratio will rise by 1,5 times.


No, but you will get a bigger (more detailed) picture of the object on a crop cam. Cool

Magnification ratio is defined as the physical size of the object and the physical size of the image on the film or sensor. That was a handy definition in the days of optical enlargers, photographing documents and drawings to make exact copies (before photocopiers), or forensic and scientific photography where measurements could be made on slide film.

Magnification ratio is not that useful if you are asking 'will I get a bigger photo' - yes, you will. If you had a 6 megapixel full frame camera and a 6 megapixel DX crop camera, the image would be bigger (more pixels high) on the crop camera because the pixels are smaller. Note too that it would be even bigger (more pixels high) if you had a 10 megapixel DX crop camera, compared to a 6 megapixel crop camera.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
1:2 is 1:2, it's a function of the lens and has nothing to do with the size of the negative or sensor.

The amount that you enlarge an image from a crop camera to create, say, an 8x12 print, is greater than the amount you would enlarge a full frame to make the same print, so that you get a larger image in the print from the crop camera.

1:2 means that the size of your subject at closest focus is 2x the size of your negative or image sensor. 2 times a 24x36mm full frame gives you a minimum subject size of 48x72mm. 2 times a 15x22.5mm sensor gives you a minimum subject size of 30x45mm. When you blow up a 30x45mm subject to an 8x10 print you get a higher final magnification than you get when you blow up a 48x72mm subject to an 8x10 print. But the magnification ratio is still 1:2 in the original image, which is what the 1:2 means.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As far as I know the 3.5 did survive into the AI period, there are also plenty (including mine) of AI'd 3.5's available. It's a cracking lens, and will give you 1:1 with the PK13 tube fitted, but it does reduce the light available dranatically!


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, finally I got my 55mm micro lens. It is an AI lens so no problem on d70s body. Tested it for several shots and the first thing I noticed is the light weight of the lens. Built quality is usual MF nikkor. I just shot some photos in the balcony so cannot speculate on the results yet.

As you mentioned test shots are OK for exposure control but I guess I'll try to modify it for quick shots in the wild.

One handheld shot from this lens. MIR cpu contacts



Again thanks a lot for all replies.

Last edited by yucel on Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yucel wrote:


One handheld shot from this lens. MIR cpu contacts


Is that a MIR lens that comes with CPU contacts, or one that you modified to add them?

Edited to add: I now see that yucel had mentioned modifying this lense earlier in the thread, but I had missed that posting.

Last edited by ChrisLilley on Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ChrisLilley wrote:

Is that a MIR lens that comes with CPU contacts, or one that you modified to add them?


Modified, for sure.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought you would use a chip just like the dandelion for the Olympus adapter not a real lens CPU.
I can see now what you are to, but still don't know if it really worth the effort unless you use the 55mm as a normal lens because for macro shot you are so near to your subject that it's often better to use manual exposition.
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