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Rokkor MD 70-210 f/4
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:29 am    Post subject: Rokkor MD 70-210 f/4 Reply with quote
Got my MD 70-210 in the mail today. I had read about how good the Minolta "beercan" was, but I'm not interested in having a funky/huge AF adaptor on my little a6300. I heard that the MD 70-210 f4 is optically identical to the "beercan" so I found one cheap on ebay and picked it up. I'm quite happy with it so far. Typical bulletproof Rokkor build quality and the optics seem good. Here are some shots just messing around inside and out (don't expect super pro, I'm just a regular Joe Very Happy).

210mm:


~90mm (guessing... no EXIF Very Happy):


~90mm (guessing... no EXIF Very Happy):


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks good so far. Smile I still haven't tested mine yet. Do you mind if I add a few shots later here?


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Minolta MD 70 210 f4 is a very good zoom. I like mine very much and use it with an A7. Since I own a MD 75 150 f4 I tend to prefer this one . My feeling is that it is superior in terms of sharpness , contrast and CA to the 70/210.
It is said to be similar to the Beercan. The Beercan has nevertheless a pure internal focus ; so I think that they are not identical.

http://forum.mflenses.com/rokkor-md-70-210-with-a7-t73593,highlight,%2Brokkor+%2B70+%2B210.html


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
miran wrote:
Looks good so far. Smile I still haven't tested mine yet. Do you mind if I add a few shots later here?


Thank you and yes please do share, miran! Like 1 small


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
The Minolta MD 70 210 f4 is a very good zoom. I like mine very much and use it with an A7. Since I own a MD 75 150 f4 I tend to prefer this one . My feeling is that it is superior in terms of sharpness , contrast and CA to the 70/210.
It is said to be similar to the Beercan. The Beercan has nevertheless a pure internal focus ; so I think that they are not identical.

http://forum.mflenses.com/rokkor-md-70-210-with-a7-t73593,highlight,%2Brokkor+%2B70+%2B210.html


Those safari pics are great! Like 1 small

So you like the 75-150 better than the 70-210? I actually didn't even know about that one.. Great, now you are giving me another lens to track down lol. Laugh 1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have mixed feelings so far. It looks good and feels good in use. Good IQ at close range but not so much at infinity. Very fiddly to get far away objects in focus as well. On my adapter it goes ever so slightly beyond infinity and when it's not perfectly focused instead of just being soft, the image has a sort of glow/haze appearance. Can't nail focus without going to zoomed view. Much better handling and performance at close and medium range though. Another thing is it seems to suffer quite a bit from CA and PF. So much so that RawTherapee's defringe tool is barely able to remove it at max setting.

Here's the obligatory first shot of the cat, at around 180-190mm (just below 210), wide open and against light:



And now the interesting bit. I also just received the 75-150/4 as well and immediately like it much more! It's half the size and weight, the same handling and seems at first glance to have better image quality at all settings! And it was cheaper.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
miran wrote:
And now the interesting bit. I also just received the 75-150/4 as well and immediately like it much more! It's half the size and weight, the same handling and seems at first glance to have better image quality at all settings! And it was cheaper.


Yep, the MD75-150/4 is quite good: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1479175.html


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting developments!

I find that basically all the adapters allow you to focus past infinity though. I've shimmed mine using my MD 24mm f2.8, and can get it pretty damn close, but still other lenses will be off and require tweaking. I've never been able to just bang the infinity stop and have the long distance stuff be super sharp.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boris_Akunin wrote:
miran wrote:
And now the interesting bit. I also just received the 75-150/4 as well and immediately like it much more! It's half the size and weight, the same handling and seems at first glance to have better image quality at all settings! And it was cheaper.


Yep, the MD75-150/4 is quite good: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1479175.html


Wow, that's quite an extensive test.

The 75-150 looks quite good.

....aaaaannnd I just ordered one Laugh 1 Laugh 1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My copy of the 70-210 f4 is top notch! Love the lens, best zoom I have.

http://forum.mflenses.com/minolta-md-zoom-70-210mm-in-the-winter-dusk-t73763.html


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, a very extensive test indeed. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
My copy of the 70-210 f4 is top notch! Love the lens, best zoom I have.

http://forum.mflenses.com/minolta-md-zoom-70-210mm-in-the-winter-dusk-t73763.html


Beautiful shots!! Like 1 small Like 1 small


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
The Minolta MD 70 210 f4 is a very good zoom.
...
It is said to be similar to the Beercan. The Beercan has nevertheless a pure internal focus ; so I think that they are not identical.



The "beercan" (Minolta AF 4/70-210mm) has NOT internal focus; it is focused using the front lenses, as with the Minolta MD 4/70-210mm. Lens section and performance of both MD and AF 4/70-210 seem to identical. Either the two constructions are identical, or they are very close to each other.

I know for sure, that MD and AF 3.5-4.5/28-85mm share the same optical formula; therefore it is possible and probable, that MD and AF 4/70-210 have the same optical construction as well.

Stephan


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
My copy of the 70-210 f4 is top notch! Love the lens, best zoom I have.


The MD/AF 4/70-210mm is a good tele zoom, certainly better than most 1970-1980 tele zooms, but top notch? No.

Even the Minolta AF 2.8/80-200mm (with one AD lens) is visibly better than the MD/AF 4/70-210. Newer lenses such as the Minolta / Sony AF 2.8/70-200mm G SSM (with three AD lenses) are clearly better.

I agree, however, that e. g. the early AF Nikkor 2.8/80-200mm does not come close to its Minolta equivalent.

Stephan


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
memetph wrote:
The Minolta MD 70 210 f4 is a very good zoom.
...
It is said to be similar to the Beercan. The Beercan has nevertheless a pure internal focus ; so I think that they are not identical.



The "beercan" (Minolta AF 4/70-210mm) has NOT internal focus; it is focused using the front lenses, as with the Minolta MD 4/70-210mm. Lens section and performance of both MD and AF 4/70-210 seem to identical. Either the two constructions are identical, or they are very close to each other.

I know for sure, that MD and AF 3.5-4.5/28-85mm share the same optical formula; therefore it is possible and probable, that MD and AF 4/70-210 have the same optical construction as well.

Stephan


But Steve , I got this information from your site ( artaphot.ch) . Es ist "Innenfokussierung " geschrieben .


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
blotafton wrote:
My copy of the 70-210 f4 is top notch! Love the lens, best zoom I have.


The MD/AF 4/70-210mm is a good tele zoom, certainly better than most 1970-1980 tele zooms, but top notch? No.

Even the Minolta AF 2.8/80-200mm (with one AD lens) is visibly better than the MD/AF 4/70-210. Newer lenses such as the Minolta / Sony AF 2.8/70-200mm G SSM (with three AD lenses) are clearly better.

I agree, however, that e. g. the early AF Nikkor 2.8/80-200mm does not come close to its Minolta equivalent.

Stephan


70-80's zooms is what I am comparing to. I have no doubt that modern lenses are better. The only newish tele zoom in my possession is a EF 70-300mm IS USM and it has similar image quality to the Minolta.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
devinw wrote:
blotafton wrote:
My copy of the 70-210 f4 is top notch! Love the lens, best zoom I have.

http://forum.mflenses.com/minolta-md-zoom-70-210mm-in-the-winter-dusk-t73763.html


Beautiful shots!! Like 1 small Like 1 small


Thank you!

I also see now that I missed memetph's reply in that thread, that was also posted here. Those safari photos are awesome! Really shows what good photographer can do whith the lens.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
miran, you are right... in the right conditions, wide open, purple fringe FOR DAYS:

100% CROP:



Also took this one of a small spider and his dinner. Also f4:


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice spider. But those purple fringes and LoCA, yes, that's a problem of this lens. This very negatively affects (slightly) out of focus areas and makes the transition area look like mush instead of being smooth. Also doesn't handle sources of light in the frame very well. Definitely a lens that you need to learn how to use properly and not try to make it do things it can't do.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:

...
But Steve , I got this information from your site ( artaphot.ch) . Es ist "Innenfokussierung " geschrieben .

Uh-oh ..!!! Obviously a mistake from my side, which probably arose already while writing the A900-book.
I have corrected it: [img]http://www.artaphot.ch/minolta-sony-af/objektive/268-minolta-af-70-210mm-f4[/img]

I'm aware that i should critically re-read (and re-write, if necessary) all the information on artaphot. And i should publish it in English as well ... and i should publish all the MF-tests i alrady have run ... Possibly there will be a collaboration with Zeiss in the future (to be decided around Dec 2016), and that would give me some time to re-design the entire site. Let's see what happens.

Thanks again for finding my mistake!!

Stephan


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
stevemark wrote:

The MD/AF 4/70-210mm is a good tele zoom, certainly better than most 1970-1980 tele zooms, but top notch? No.
...
Stephan


70-80's zooms is what I am comparing to. I have no doubt that modern lenses are better. The only newish tele zoom in my possession is a EF 70-300mm IS USM and it has similar image quality to the Minolta.


Sorry, i forgot that we're in a MF forum here ... And sometimes i think one should not forget modern lenses whe writing about old MF stuff.

I love vintage MF lenses, and i do most of my professional work with 1985-1990 AF lenses, but good 2010-2015 lenses are sharper/more perfect (and less "glowing" ...) than 1965-1980 vintage lenses.

Stephan


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
miran wrote:
Nice spider. But those purple fringes and LoCA, yes, that's a problem of this lens. This very negatively affects (slightly) out of focus areas and makes the transition area look like mush instead of being smooth. Also doesn't handle sources of light in the frame very well. Definitely a lens that you need to learn how to use properly and not try to make it do things it can't do.


I agree. I think it will definitely be useful, but only for certain things.

I'm curious to see how the 75-150 works out. When do you receive yours?


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A few shots from today's "test walk":

1.
NEX6_0003_3515 by Miran Amon, on Flickr

2.
NEX6_0003_3517 by Miran Amon, on Flickr

3.
NEX6_0003_3523 by Miran Amon, on Flickr

4.
NEX6_0003_3524 by Miran Amon, on Flickr

5.
NEX6_0003_3525 by Miran Amon, on Flickr

6.
NEX6_0003_3528 by Miran Amon, on Flickr

The whole album with a few more is here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskHvdj8N

They look okay at this small flickr oversharpened size, but not so much when pixel peeping at 100%. The flickr album contains 12 shots at this time and I have a feeling it won't grow much any time soon.

The 75-150 already came but I haven't had time to test it yet. At first glance it looks much more promising than the 70-210.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice! Looks pretty good, but yeah...you never know about the pixel peeping until you...pixel peep Very Happy.

You have some very nice scenery where you live BTW!

I'm interested to see how you like the 75-150! Mine should be here in a week (coming from Japan).
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