MF camera recommendation

[esrods]

I decided to get a Medium Format camera and have been browsing eBay and found a couple:

Yashica 635 TLR
Bronica ETRsi with 75mm F 1:2.8 EII lens.

Are they any good? What would be the reasonable prices for these?
Any other cameras?

From above two, I am leaning towards the Bronica.
Thank you.
Ed

[hacksawbob]

The bronica seems to go for 150-200 depending what options with it maybe more

The yashica tlr can be had for around the 30-80 mark if you stay clear of the 124G (the last model with light meter and gold contacts.) the yashicamat I have is a great camera, with the yashinon lens I have found them to be not good for flare, but thats no surprise, sharpness wide open is acceptable but not stellar. good entry level model.

http://www.williamsphotographic.com/yashica.html

[Orio]

The advantage of the Bronica is that it has interchangeable lenses.

[Nesster]

There are two and a half ways to go, the way I look at it:

1) interchangeable lens camera- these are mainly SLRs though there is a TLR and a RF or two available. Any of these tends to be a heavy brute, they sort of scare me so far.

2) old TLR or folding camera. These are fixed lens designs, and tend to be relatively small and light, and usually fairly simple. What you get is a decent lens and a large negative.

The half would be the more modern versions of category 2 - I'd say the Yash 124G squeaks into this category, but mainly I'm thinking of the Fuji range finders, perhaps a couple of others. The Fujis have an excellent rep and personally I hope to own one at some point.

[bob955i]

IMO if you're starting out with medium format, start with a TLR as they represent the cheapest and most straightforward way into it - that way, if you later decide MF isn't for you, you haven't committed to a generally more expensive and larger system camera.

And if you do like MF and decide to take it further, your TLR can still remain part of your kit.

I have the 635 you mention and it's a great camera and an ideal introduction to MF - don't bother with the 35mm adapter as you'll never use it.

[Orio]

[bob955i]

Very true - but realistically the P6 lenses that make most sense from a cross platform point of view are probably the Biometar 120, Sonnar 180 and Sonnar 300 and of course some of the Russian ones.

In the case of the Zeiss Jena lenses, they're all relatively big bucks now and unlikely to come with a P6 body for starters.

Also:

Can you get a P6 + Biometar 80 for the same as something like a Yashica-Mat and which of the two is more likely to function properly?

We both know about the possibility of framing issues with the P6 and how it needs careful loading and use - no need to do that with a TLR; just load it up and shoot.

I'm not dismissing the P6 or any other system MF camera for that matter - I do agree in principle, I'm just suggesting how someone could get started and then build up to that level at minimum expense and commitment should they wish to.

[peterqd]

Go for the TLR to start with, I'm really pleased I followed Bob's advice on the same question last year. The square format, the waist level finder and the reversed image in the finder make it a completely different and interesting experience. I just sometimes wish I could use a wide angle on it.

[bob955i]

Peter:

It might be worthwhile tracking down the auxiliary WA lens set for your Yashi - it's around the 50mm mark so you're looking at around 28mm in 135. It does degrade the image a bit as you'd expect, but not by as much as the aux. tele set so the results may be acceptable to you as long as you don't pay too much for it.

This is what it looks like - there's two parts to it; a small viewing lens and the larger taking lens and the fit is BAY1:
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/Bob955i/bigcams.jpg

If you want better pix, let me know.

[peterqd]

Bob, I've had a search going on Ebay for Yashica auxiliary lenses for months, but all I ever see is lenses for the rangefinders. Should I be looking for something different?

[bob955i]

The mount is the key - 'BAY1' Peter. In addition to the Yashica branded ones, I've also seen 'Sun' branded aux. lenses for the Yashica TLRs - might be worth adding to the search arsenal, along with 'BAY1'

Mind you, I've just had a dig through Ebay and found zilch....

[Laurence]

I started medium format with Yashica Mat, and have had decent results from it.

I would certainly recommend it as a great way to start into the medium format.

[rick_oleson]

My emphatic vote is for the TLR. It will be cheaper, lighter, and more reliable than an SLR, and good ones are available at pretty much any price point you care to choose. Interchangeable lenses are a benefit only if you have the money to buy them and can find them, and only if they and the body they fit form a reliable combination. If you want that feature, give a little thought to which extra lenses you want and look into their prices before you commit to the system.

Another aspect of starting out is that you don't know if you want to commit to MF at all, much less to one particular camera system that you've never tried.... which is my reason for generally recommending some of the very inexpensive options for a first look. In particular, the Ciro-Flex is perhaps the best bargain in existence in terms of performance per dollar, giving genuine MF quality results for something in the neighborhood of $25-30.... but it is decidedly lacking in style and creature comforts. The Yashicas are good too, and have a more finished appearance for a little more money. If you're thinking of spending north of $100, I'd look at the early Rolleiflex Automats, you can get an X-synch model from the late 40s for about that much, and its coated Tessar lens is an excellent performer, unlikely to be beaten by anything else near that price range. The Rollei's robust construction means that even though it's older it will probably outlast many of the similar-looking models from other makers.

[esrods]

Thanks all.
Well, I think I need a bit more time to do reseach. Now I am more confused

Most of you recommend to start with an inexpensive camera. With due respect, I'd rather start with a reasonable quality (read expensive but affordable) and versatility so later if I continue on with MF I don't end up with so many cheap cameras on the shelf. And if I don't like MF, then I can recoup the money by re-selling.
Also, I like the idea of interchangeable lens system and even better if I can share the lens with my DSLR.
Having said that, the MF camera lenses cost a lot more than ones for 35mm cameras. I am not sure if I can afford additional lenses.

BTW, my budget is about $200 south.
With this budget, I think HasselblOOd and RollEYEs are out of reach other than really old ones.
Can you suggest value-for-money MF camera?
It does not matter if it is TLR or SLR as long as it has a reasonable quality wide angle lens for landscaping and I can re-sell without too much trouble.
cheers
Ed

[hacksawbob]

I have to give a recomendation for the Kowa 6 solid reliable camera the basic setup with an 80mm lens will set you back around £100. very good lenses. the 55mm costs around £100 A few things to watch for gears fail if abused. But I have found mine to be a very good worker although I bought from the guy who used it from new and it was very well cared for. The lenses are limited to the kowa range but they are very good.

[Orio]

If you want wide angle then compact or folded cameras like those suggested so far, are not for you.

The cheapest solution I can think of for wide angle is Pentacon 6 or Kiev-66 camera, plus a MIR-36B 65mm lens (equivalent of 40mm of small format).

A Pentacon-6 should be found around 80-90 Euros
A MIR-36B (exceptional quality lens) around 40 Euros

[Nesster]

The thing about TLRs and the best of the vintage folders (e.g. http://www.certo6.com/) that for not much money you get an excellent camera. So in this case cheap doesn't have to mean poor quality. For example, I bought my Diacord for $35.

In wide angle, there is a non-interchangeable option with the Fuji rangefinder series.

[rick_oleson]

Last fall I bought a very nice Rolleiflex MX for $156. You might have to go as high as $180.

In an SLR, I don't think $200 is going to buy you anything that you'll be able to trust, and additional lenses are likely to run you an extra $200 each or more.

But it's your money. In the SLR range, one that I like personally is the Mamiya 645. It has an electronic shutter, and generally either works right or quits, not a lot of fussing in between. I also like the Praktisix/Pentacon Six series, and have two of them.... but I do my own repair, and have done so on both. If I had to send them out the economic equation would be quite different.

[Flor27]

I've got my P6 TL with Biometar 80 & Flektogon 50 for less than 90 € including shipping. Not in pristine state for sure, but it works flawlessly.

Sure, it's massive and prone to film transport problem if you are due with it but it's a SLR with a large lenses catalogue with some real keepers (Sonnar 180, Flek 50, ...).

Anyway I will probably get a TLR for my brother as his first MF camera... and theft it sometime