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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:25 am Post subject: Fast, short focal distance, large area lens with short regis |
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CuriousOne wrote:
ter distance available?
Hello, have no idea if this is a correct place to ask....
I need a lens, with the following properties:
Equiv. focal distance 20-40mm
"frame" size - circular at least 60mm
Aperture - faster is better
Register distance - 8-20mm
Flat field is a must
Image quality is not important at all, since this will be used for illumination purposes (stencil theatre).
The best what I was able to get is the projection tv lens (They usually are F0.95/78mm, register distance is about 10mm, they cover 70mm area). The bad is, that they mostly are in 70-80mm equiv. focal distance, which means they need to be far from the wall, to provide bigger coverage.
Any ideas? _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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kansalliskalaCafe
Joined: 23 Jul 2015 Posts: 602 Location: South Finland, countryside
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:26 am Post subject: |
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kansalliskalaCafe wrote:
I'm not en expert in optics but I think you need something that looks like a crystal ball? _________________ (my normal account password still on another computer) |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Yes, except that crystal ball has curved field of view, while I need flat one _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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kansalliskalaCafe
Joined: 23 Jul 2015 Posts: 602 Location: South Finland, countryside
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:51 am Post subject: |
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kansalliskalaCafe wrote:
good luck!
http://toothwalker.org/optics/vignetting.html _________________ (my normal account password still on another computer) |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16651 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Fast, short focal distance, large area lens with short r |
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kds315* wrote:
CuriousOne wrote: |
ter distance available?
Hello, have no idea if this is a correct place to ask....
I need a lens, with the following properties:
Equiv. focal distance 20-40mm
"frame" size - circular at least 60mm
Aperture - faster is better
Register distance - 8-20mm
Flat field is a must
Image quality is not important at all, since this will be used for illumination purposes (stencil theatre).
The best what I was able to get is the projection tv lens (They usually are F0.95/78mm, register distance is about 10mm, they cover 70mm area). The bad is, that they mostly are in 70-80mm equiv. focal distance, which means they need to be far from the wall, to provide bigger coverage.
Any ideas? |
I have one, a military Hypergon type lens, about 26mm focal length, but not fast (f8 ), covers 180x180mm at least.
Extremely flat field, very sharp. But it cannot be bought anymore
I guess you anyway want a really fast lens... _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16651 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
On 2nd thought, how about an aspheric condensor of suitable short focal length?
Seen such as surplus items on ebay, are very fast (<f1.0), image quality is acceptable. _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Yes, that would be great, how it is called properly? _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7557 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Klaus has already give the proper name: aspheric condenser
http://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=3835 _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
I even got one from friend, and tested already
But it is from microscope, so it covers quite limited area:
http://i.imgur.com/Ups5HQh.jpg
But results are OK:
http://i.imgur.com/ZCCGchQ.jpg
(disregard blur, that is bokeh). _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16651 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Anchor optics has some for little money with 33mm FL: http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=499
But should be a bit larger to cover the 60mm, like this one:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/optics/optical-lenses/ball-condenser-lenses/experimental-quality-condenser-lenses/40339/
but this is 46mm FL.
But be aware that the FL is measured from inside of that relatively thick lens, BFD (back focal distance) is quite shorter than FL!
CVI also has them in various types, at higher prices:
http://marketplace.idexop.com/store/IdexCustom/PartDetails?pvId=27559 _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Thanks for suggestions.
I've checked my lens inventory, and as I can see, I have huge lot of these "condenser" lenses lying around. Some are so extruded, that they look like half of the lemon. I've already tried them, but the problem is, that image projected with them, has only center sharp - edges are very stretched and out of focus. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Fast, short focal distance, large area lens with short r |
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Gerald wrote:
CuriousOne wrote: |
I need a lens, with the following properties:
Equiv. focal distance 20-40mm
"frame" size - circular at least 60mm
Aperture - faster is better
Register distance - 8-20mm
Flat field is a must |
Why a so short "register distance"? (I suppose you meant back focus distance...) _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Yes, i mean back focus distance.
Currently my "setup" looks like this - left to right
(studio strobe) (ground glass) (stencil cutout) (lens) (wall)
basically, I want to build a simple "slide" projector, but which will be able to output large size images, being at short distance from the screen.
and short "register distance" is due to fact, that lens is heavy, and it attaches to strobe head, so I don't want it to introduce too much load. And save space, too. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
CuriousOne wrote: |
Yes, i mean back focus distance.
Currently my "setup" looks like this - left to right
<studio> <ground><cutout><lens> <wall>
basically, I want to build a simple "slide" projector, but which will be able to output large size images, being at short distance from the screen. |
I still do not understand why a back focus distance so short is necessary. Is it to see something forbidden through the keyhole?
Have you considered the 38mm Biogon used on the Hasselblad? _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Please check this photo. If lens is too far from strobe, it will put excessive weight on it. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 11008 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
CuriousOne wrote: |
Please check this photo. If lens is too far from strobe, it will put excessive weight on it. |
bracket... _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
I do not know the weight of the Zeiss 38mm Biogon, but I would estimate it to be something around 500g, what does not seem excessive. Anyway, what is the difficulty in making a support arm for the lens, so as to not put a strain on the strobe? _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
The aim is to make this attachment as simple to use, as plain snoot or barn doors. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
CuriousOne wrote: |
The aim is to make this attachment as simple to use, as plain snoot or barn doors. |
Good Luck! _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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DConvert
Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 921 Location: Essex UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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DConvert wrote:
If it's just for lighting would a Fresnel lens work?
These are available in large diameters, but are still lightweight... |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Yes, already ordered couple of them too, will see how it works. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Fast, short focal distance, large area lens with short r |
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Gerald wrote:
CuriousOne wrote: |
............
Flat field is a must
Image quality is not important at all, since this will be used for illumination purposes (stencil theatre).
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DConvert wrote: |
If it's just for lighting would a Fresnel lens work?
These are available in large diameters, but are still lightweight... |
CuriousOne wrote: |
Yes, already ordered couple of them too, will see how it works. |
"Flat field is a must" for "illumination purposes"? Are you serious or just kidding us? _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Not kidding. Because without flat field, stencil edges won't be defined on projected image circle.
This all started, when I saw Broncolor Pulso Spot 4 in action. I was very impressed. You can check some examples here:
http://www.bron.ch/broncolor/products/lamps/showproduct/optical-snoot-150-mm-for-pulso-spot-4/?cHash=127e772820a437a01a9364c9db9eec58
Then I went online and checked prices.
$10000 price tag (for kit with lens and generator), impressed me even more.
I googled for cheaper alternative, and found so called "optical snoot", made by chinese. $300
I thought that price is still high, and task should be pretty doable.
In less than 2 hours I have workng prototype on hands. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
B&H sells the Broncolor Optical Snoot for Pulso 4 Flash Head (6"/150mm). The "thing" weighs 1.78 kg and costs $4,176.76. The dimensions are 180 x 230 mm. Obviously it is not a toy to be improvised with some cheap lenses in a few hours. _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Yes, and you need flash head and generator also
Here's much cheaper alternative:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Falcon-Eyes-FEA-OST-2-Optical-Snoot/dp/B00HU02I7G _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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