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Voigtlaender Ultra Wide-Heliar 12mm/F5.6 M39/LTM
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:30 am    Post subject: Voigtlaender Ultra Wide-Heliar 12mm/F5.6 M39/LTM Reply with quote
On my today's dog walk I've tried this lens in combination with the NEX-C3 (16MP/APS-C) to check for compatibility issues.
Obviously no issues on this Sony. I've originally bought it for the Lumix MFT and use it normally on the Ricoh GXR-M, where it just works fine too. However, I've never tried it on NEX before. The FOV compares to 18mm on FF.
Actually I like this lens for its rather unusual perspectives and unlike to other lenses of similar focus lengths it doesn't produce curved pictures like fish eyes normally do. So there was no correction applied.
Resized as usual.



PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Be fun to see on a FF like the A7 series. To bad neither of us have one. ha!


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vroger wrote:
Be fun to see on a FF like the A7 series. To bad neither of us have one. ha!


That's not a problem. Just send me the lens and I'll post as many photos from my A7II as you want. Glad to help. Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vroger wrote:
Be fun to see on a FF like the A7 series. To bad neither of us have one. ha!


Have used it already on 35mm slides in combination with a "Zorki 4" camera. Excellent results, almost no distortion and very impressive. Almost 180 degrees view. Unfortunately I've lost the slides somewhere. However, as soon I've done another film I will certainly post a sample of the pictures here.
I am sure, you'll find some examples in the web also, if you search for it.


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
newst wrote:

That's not a problem. Just send me the lens and I'll post as many photos from my A7II as you want. Glad to help. Very Happy


Is too far away and complicated....

However, I am still not sure whether this lens works fine on the A7 or not. I am afraid it won't as also the older CV 15mm creates troubles on the A7 as I've already seen.
On FF film it works excellent and obviously also on the NEX as you can see...
However, even on APS-C it is a impressive lens and better than any "normal fish eye" on FF. At least for my taste.


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
vroger wrote:
Be fun to see on a FF like the A7 series. To bad neither of us have one. ha!


Have used it already on 35mm slides in combination with a "Zorki 4" camera. Excellent results, almost no distortion and very impressive. Almost 180 degrees view. Unfortunately I've lost the slides somewhere. However, as soon I've done another film I will certainly post a sample of the pictures here.
I am sure, you'll find some examples in the web also, if you search for it.

http://forum.mflenses.com/voigtlander-12mm-ultra-wide-and-a7r-t64660.html


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
newst wrote:

That's not a problem. Just send me the lens and I'll post as many photos from my A7II as you want. Glad to help. Very Happy


Is too far away and complicated....

However, I am still not sure whether this lens works fine on the A7 or not. I am afraid it won't as also the older CV 15mm creates troubles on the A7 as I've already seen.
On FF film it works excellent and obviously also on the NEX as you can see...
However, even on APS-C it is a impressive lens and better than any "normal fish eye" on FF. At least for my taste.


It likely won't work well on an A7. I sold a 35mm Voigtlander because it vignetted too badly on the A7 and would only use the 25mm Snapshot Skopar on the A6000 for the same reason. With he A7II though things are different. The 25mm barely vignettes wide open and clears up as the lens is stopped down. I suspect that Sony learned from the problems with wide lenses i the initial A7 models and tweaked the sensor.

Still, 15mm might be pushing things a bit too far.


PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The CV12 is well known to have less issues than the first 2 CV15's, as my link in my previous post illustrates, the new CV15III works quite well, my desire for a good UWA has been finally filled, I'm enjoying it so much I'm seriously thinking about getting the CV21/1.8 and CV12.


PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice results with the CV12.
Its certainly one of my favorite lenses and a must bring on more serious photo trips.

As for the heavy vignette on the A7 (not A7R), I have a few ways to deal with it.

Here is what I do :

To correct for it, I am using 3 ways (interchangeably and sometimes a mix of them).
This is mainly for the vignetting, but method #2 takes care of the color cast as well.

Method 1
=======
1. Just use the CV12 profile in LR

Pros : Fast
Cons : Can be a tad too aggressive in the corrections causing the file to be brittle to further PP.
No help to the cases where the color cast is strong (seems its strong sometimes and not as obvious in others)


Method 2
=======
1. Shoot a white wall on long exposure and jiggle the camera about (so that its only a blur of the wall with only the vignette and color cast)
2. In LR, use a combination of CV12 profile and adjustment brush to correct the vignette and color cast.
3. Leave this 'correction template' in a folder in LR.
4. When correcting a CV12 photo, simply click on this 'correction template', click back to the shot to be corrected and click 'Prev'.
This will apply all the adjustments onto the photo.

The advantage of this is that I can usually leave a bit of 'under correction' which is often not too obvious but leaving the file with some mileage for other PP.
Alternatively, one can also select the corrected 'template', then use 'Copy' to copy the adjustment brush and lens corrections.
This can then be applied on any CV12 image, just by clicking on the 'Paste' button.


Method #3.
========
1. Create a Template as #2
2. Shoot a normal exposure shot and one that is 1.5, 2ev over exposure.
3. Use the template to create a mask in Photoshop
4. Use the mask on the over exposed shot
(I save this as an action so its really easy to apply)

This obviously gives the best quality file (but does not correct for the color cast).
Can be combined with method #2 with just tint correction of course.


Hope the info helps.
I've yet to try paid options, though I did not like using Adobe Flat Field Plugin (slow, hassle, aggressive correction, too many files to manage)


PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
vroger wrote:
Be fun to see on a FF like the A7 series. To bad neither of us have one. ha!

The CV 12/5.6 is a fun lens to use on the Sony A7. It makes a very compact and light setup (it fits in a wintercoat pocket), which is able to deliver amazing pictures:



The only other lenses able to offer a similar field of view with a rectilinear projection on full frame are the Canon 11-24/4 and Sigma 12-24/4.5-5.6 zooms but these are much bigger lenses that require a bulky adapter in order to work with the Sony A7.

With the Sony A7, the CV 12/5.6 exhibits no corner smearing. There is a magenta cast visible in the corners though, but it is only visible on certain types of pictures (usually subjects standing against bright sky) and is quite easy to correct. The vignetting (quite common for such a wide lens) is also easy to correct in post, as explained by Pinholecam. If I remember correctly, the above picture had a bit of vignetting correction but no correction of the magenta corner cast.

I love to use the CV 12/5.6 as a snapshot lens for street shooting. I set the aperture at F/11 and the distance at 1m with the A7 on aperture priority. With the huge depth of field of this lens, everything from about 0.5 m to infinity is sharp so I just need to compose and press the button!

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is an interesting lens for sure. I used it on my A7R and also tested is slightly on my A7 II before selling it to get the CV 15 III which is a better choice in my opinion, with no apparent issues at all Wink


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
It is an interesting lens for sure. I used it on my A7R and also tested is slightly on my A7 II before selling it to get the CV 15 III which is a better choice in my opinion, with no apparent issues at all Wink


For A7x users this might be true. For me the CV 12 is definitely the better choice (especially on the GXR-M) with no issues at all. Wink


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
It is an interesting lens for sure. I used it on my A7R and also tested is slightly on my A7 II before selling it to get the CV 15 III which is a better choice in my opinion, with no apparent issues at all Wink


Indeed, the new CV15III is the best choice now.


I stuck to the CV12 though because its so wide that it almost looks to the side. (and below)



The wreck and its master by jenkwang, on Flickr



DSC0985920140602ILCE-7_1 by jenkwang, on Flickr



DSC00406 by jenkwang, on Flickr

The other thing is that I will usually carry a 20mm, 21mm or 24mm as the next focal length and 15mm to that is a bit too near in focal length options for my preference.


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
pinholecam wrote:

I stuck to the CV12 though because its so wide that it almost looks to the side. (and below)

The other thing is that I will usually carry a 20mm, 21mm or 24mm as the next focal length and 15mm to that is a bit too near in focal length options for my preference.


Well, I have both. However on DX it's a bit different and it makes sense to have both, which correspond to 18mm and 23mm FOV.
And of course on film they work perfectly too which beats the quality of the A7x anyway.

I've done a FOV comparison on DX-sensor in an older thread: http://forum.mflenses.com/voigtlander-lenses-t70984,start,20.html
This includes also the 21mm and 25mm lenses from CV.
However, it's absolutely clear that the 12mm lens is perfectly spectacular on FF and there is presently almost no alternative available.


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great composition, pinholecam!


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, really nice Pinhole! Very Happy

A few from CV 15 III and A7 II





PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CV 12mm/5.6 on Ricoh GXR-M (clickable for larger view):



PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some more example pictures from the CV12/5.6 / Ricoh GXR-M:

#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


No. 1 + 4 WO (F5.6), rest stopped down to F8 and 11.

Comments are welcome.

Cheers,


PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice Thomas... Like 1


PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kryss wrote:
Very nice Thomas..


Thank you, Kryss.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As many already know, there are new lenses coming from Voigtlander, a new version of the 12mm, it will have a similar upgrade that the 15 recieved, it should be awesome, they are also adding a 10mm lens to the lineup, it should be interesting, and fun, I can't wait to see the results from them.
Parallel to the M mount lenses, they are going to offer E mount versions of the 10, 12, and 15mm lenses, they may offer EXIF data, but will still be fully manual.
The only nitpick will be that the hoods are permanent, and the 10 & 12mm will have no filter threads.
SK Grimes does offer a service to remove the hood and anodize the part, they may be able to offer filter threads.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
The only nitpick will be that the hoods are permanent, and the 10 & 12mm will have no filter threads.
SK Grimes does offer a service to remove the hood and anodize the part, they may be able to offer filter threads.


I doubt that you can use filters on the 10 and 12 mm versions without vignetting, especially when used on A7 (FF) series. Even the lens hood (sun shade) is only a bad joke on my 12 mm version in order to prevent vignetting. It's more or less useless on lenses with such a wide angle of view, similar to many fish-eye lenses in existence. That is a general problem with all super wide lenses and not specific to Voigtländer.
However, there would be a special filter holder available from Voigtländer: Click here to see on Ebay. I think it takes 77 mm filters.

Last edited by tb_a on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The new CV models would probably vignette less just like the CV15 III did compared to previous versions.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pretty amazing results!!

Just a question as I have sold mine years ago (arrrggghhh...), what's the MFD of the 12mm lens?
And if set to infinity, what's say at f8 the closest distance in focus (according to the lens scale)?


PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
what's the MFD of the 12mm lens?
And if set to infinity, what's say at f8 the closest distance in focus (according to the lens scale)?


MFD = 0.3 m

If set to infinity, at F8 the DOF is apprx. 0.6 m to infinity (F11 apprx. from 0.45 m and at F22 apprx. from 0.25 m to infinity).
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