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Take a stab at the Super Takumar 50mm F1.4 pair?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:17 pm    Post subject: Take a stab at the Super Takumar 50mm F1.4 pair? Reply with quote
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I apologize if anything I said harmed anyone in any way. I had no intent to confront, challenge, or effect anyone in a negative way and if that was somehow interpreted it was never intended. I do not know what it was that I stated which upset this person so I just removed it all as best I could. To the one offended, you have my word and I will never post again, I mean that because I'd rather not say anything at all if for one moment I thought someone else could be so injured by my words. I apologize, sincerely.

Last edited by wildlight images on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:27 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
One's newer than the other Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The IR mark being set at a different distance might indicate a different lens build ?


PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 8 element version has the IR mark to the right of the 4. The other is the 7 element version. The 8 element lens was nicknamed the Planar Killer when it was introduced in 1964 but was quietly dropped in favour of the 7 element lens around 1965 because of the high cost and allegedly a loss to Asahi on every one sold.

over all its probably a better lens than the 7 element version.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My 8 element #1416255 is identical to your #1479451.
note also that on the 8 element, the rear glass protrudes slightly whilst rear glass on the 7 element is flat.
Mine weighs 241g

Last edited by geoffox23 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by wildlight images on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you have a known 7-element version, shine a light into all three lenses & count the reflections. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looking at the third picture you post, the rear element of the lens pictured above protrudes slightly more than the other.

And that lens has the IR mark to the right of the 4.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quite some time ago I found an eight element Takumar which matches your version almost exactly except for the serial number of course.
Later I bought a Spotmatic with what I thought was a seven element Takumar so that I could compare them.
Sadly, Shocked when it arrived, it turned out to be another eight element Tak. I stopped looking for a seven element Tak after that.
So I cannot compare the two for you.
My two are identical to yours except for the serial numbers, which on mine are:
1495628
1558070
How do yours compare in practice?
Do you notice any difference in imaging, bokeh etc
OH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
the one with the portruding, bigger looking rear glass and the red mark inside the f4 is the 8 element, the other a 7 element


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have both 8-elements and 7-elements Tak but mine 8-elements tak is not yellow. As long as I know they do not get yellowish as their 7-elements cousins. I didn't test them against each other but there is visible difference in color cast (can be fixed in post processing).

I have to take a look closely for the difference between them if you like to know.

EDIT: but I can tell you that 8-elements Tak was better stopped down than new Zeiss 50mm 1.4... wide open Zeiss was better but at 2.8 Tak rules. Sold brand new Zeiss and keept 8-elements Tak


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by wildlight images on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:07 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by wildlight images on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:07 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I read different feedbacks about the differences between both lenses in term of quallity. My feeling is that the 7 elements was generally prefered.
Give us your opinion. I read that the 8 elements has more flare.

Concerning yellowish elements, I think that old models do not suffer from this problem. I have four ST 55mm (1.8 or 2)and the oldest is "whiteish". The three others are more less affected .


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by wildlight images on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:33 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
wildlight images wrote:
RAART wrote:
I have both 8-elements and 7-elements Tak but mine 8-elements tak is not yellow. As long as I know they do not get yellowish as their 7-elements cousins. I didn't test them against each other but there is visible difference in color cast (can be fixed in post processing).

I have to take a look closely for the difference between them if you like to know.

EDIT: but I can tell you that 8-elements Tak was better stopped down than new Zeiss 50mm 1.4... wide open Zeiss was better but at 2.8 Tak rules. Sold brand new Zeiss and keept 8-elements Tak



There's a page out there where some one has strongly counter-claimed the yellowing factor and has samples of the 8 element version that has yellowed. But I'm fairly certain the 147xxxx red line right of the 4 is an 8 element, it yellowed and it shows. Thanks for your view and opinion on them, both of these I'm keeping for sure (they were so yellowed color was a waste so I used them doing B&W and was impressed with some great overall clarity. (I must own a dozen 50mm 1.4's of varying makes Mamiya Sekor, Yashica DX, Nikkor S, Minolta.....)

BTW, both samples have 6 aperture blades


As your pictures shows there is difference between them on the rear element and I just checked mine and the 7-element is flat. The 8-element is concave and at the mounting edge of collar ring you will see a notch that 7-elements does not have. I am sure that you have 8-elements as well as it is pictured on your pics too, however mine 8-element is not yellow like yours. The other difference is that my 7 element has written MAN and AUTO and 8-element just M and A. It is also missing MODEL engraving on the aperture switch (8-elements).

8-element: 1488651
7-element: 3166621 - Model 37801 with "dot" instead of f2

I successfully de-yelowed mine 7-element with Ikea JANSJÖ LED work lamp in just 3 days... I guess that I have to repeat this process from time to time. Didn't touch 8-element as it does not have this problem...

Ikea link to the lamp: http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/20169658/

EDIT: useful link: http://www.aohc.it/tak03e.htm


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
BTW - I do not think that yellowing occurs from thorium... Probably glue between elements.

I do have Russian Industar and it is not yellow at all. Also some Mamiya 50mm 1.4 and Yashica glass that I sold it was radioactive but not yellow...


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I tried also the Ikea lamp thanks to a video on You Tube. It had no real noticable effect.
Glue or thorium , who knows?
I have two versions of the Yashica 50 1.7 . The DS not radioactive according the tables is clear, the DS-M radioactive and extremely yellow.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
I tried also the Ikea lamp thanks to a video on You Tube. It had no real noticable effect.
Glue or thorium , who knows?
I have two versions of the Yashica 50 1.7 . The DS not radioactive according the tables is clear, the DS-M radioactive and extremely yellow.


Strange that it did not have any effect... Mine takumar lens changed the color cast significantly after 3 days. Right now is just slightly yellowish, very, very light cast.

They might changed the led bulb that does not emit a lot of UV light. Who knows...

I am maybe very lucky with my copies while except the Super-Tak none of them were yellow. The industar (lanthanum) is so clear and colors are on the cold side... I guess very lucky.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think we talk about different lenses , you 50 1.4 and I 55 1.8 . This might be the reason. On the Yashinon there was really no effect after 1 week ! Fiinally I just bought a Pentax M 1.4 instead of a Super Tak 1.4 because of this stuff.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The location of the IR mark is the most reliable ID method.
The IR mark to the right is the 8 element, it's the only one like that that I know of.
It's sharp for sure and has nice rendering, but I didn't like it's flare, the 7 element is less annoying to me, my preference is the Super Multi Coated Takumar.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
The location of the IR mark is the most reliable ID method.
The IR mark to the right is the 8 element, it's the only one like that that I know of.
It's sharp for sure and has nice rendering, but I didn't like it's flare, the 7 element is less annoying to me, my preference is the Super Multi Coated Takumar.


+1!
the 8 element is reported and - kind of verified by me - the sharpest of all versions at wide apertures, but it also is suceptible to flares, veil, loss of contrast when used against light and therefore I regard the S-M-C to be the most reliable performer, the 'better' lens overall.

There are reports of copies that have signs of both and 8 and 7 element version, I once presented such a case here in this forum: http://forum.mflenses.com/hybrid-3rd-version-of-super-takumar-f1-4-50mm-t55617.html
That 'hybrid' has most of the signs of the 8 element, though the IR mark looks distinctive to that of other 8 element version copies it is located like on an 8 element version, only the rear glass looks more like that of a 7 element. To find out what it really was, a element, I I had to open it up and compare it's lens elements to those of obvious 8 and 7 element versions ( photos had been lost, I just updated the most important ones, hopefully can show the others later, once I have access to them, again too )


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you ever open it up to count the elements?


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Did you ever open it up to count the elements?


that's exactly what I did, check the photos in the linked thread ( some photos there still 'lost', but the one showing the cemented groups, only the one of the 8 element being 'thicker' pointing at consisting of 3 elements, the others being 'thinner' indicating that they must consist of 2 elements, I just updated and can be seen ( last post on page 2 )


PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by wildlight images on Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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