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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: Advice on Zenit ET |
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Jesito wrote:
Hi everybody!
Although I'm still keeping my two film cameras since long (Fuji+Minolta), due to the fact that I've been buying some manual focus lenses to be used with my Canon 350D, and also to the fact that most of my MFLenses are of the M42 kind, I'm thinking in getting another body with M42 mount to be used with the new old-lenses, without messing too much with adapters.
I've been offered a russian Zenit ET in good condition, but I don't know about that camera.
Has anyone else any experiences with it?
I'd appreciate very much any advice.
If this turns to be not a solution, what would you recommend for a cheap M42 body?.
Thanks in advance,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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Borges
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Borges wrote:
Although I have to much Zenits of all kinds I would not use a Zenit ET for everyday shooting. The selenium light meter tends to show wrong values after all those years. The viewfinder isn't really good. The vertical curtain sometimes didn't close correct especially if using lower shutter speeds. The ET is one of the most produced Cameras ever and some of the producing factories had very poor reputation regarding to quality control. Most ET's I have bought are crap. Only one of my five is o.k. (if you forget the reading of the light meter).
For real use I would go for a newer one like 12xp or 122. And if you want a very good viewfinder with microprism and split screen, a solid body and a good lightmeter then look for a Pentacon MTL 5 B (B is important because you can use modern batteries).
Michael _________________ list of lenses:
Helios 44 (many different versions), Jupiter-9 , Jupiter 21M, Jupiter 37AM, Mir-1W, Mir-1V, Mir-10A, Mir-47M, Zenitar Fisheye, Tair 11-2, Industar 50-2 and a few more ...
Our wedding photography blog:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de/blog/
Websites:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de
http://www.dearjohn.de |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Advice on Zenit ET |
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peterqd wrote:
Jesito wrote: |
What would you recommend for a cheap M42 body? |
I go along with Michael's comments about Zenit. My best recommendation would be a Pentax Spotmatic, but be careful about the model. Go for either SP, SPII or F. They have TTL match-needle metering and semi auto lenses there's a switch which stops down the lens and switches on the meter. The SPII has a hot shoe, otherwise basically the same as the SP. The F was the last model (apart from the ES electronic version which I would avoid) and it goes for higher prices usually. It has a mico-prism VF screen and open-aperture metering if you use S-M-C lenses. They are solid, fairly heavy, beautifully built, and were quite expensive when new, so used ones have usually been well cared for. The original batteries have been discontinued but suitable alternatives are available.
Praktica "L" range is another choice. Build quality is good but not up to Pentax standard. The open-aperture metering system on later models requires "electric" lenses. Some models use batteries which are very hard to find. I really like the easy and fast method of loading new film on the take-up spool, I think it was patented. These cameras are cheap and plentiful, so it's easy to get parts or a complete replacement.
But Spotmatic would definitely be my choice.
edit: Info on different Pentax M42 SLRs
Last edited by peterqd on Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Peter has 100% right if you need good M42 film camera for reasonable price take a Spotmatic , second choice any Praktica and the last one is Zenit in my opinion. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Hi Michael, Peter and Attila,
many thanks for your answers.
I will avoid the russian one, and go for a Pentax.
In 1972, when I was passing my service in the Army, I was destined to Melilla (northern Africa). I met there a nice guy (a photographer) that was then doing the job for all the commandment (family pictures, social events, etc.). He was also serving as soldier as myself. He owned a nice Asahi Pentax, that's the first time I met that wonderful camera.
Now that you're telling me that for a little price I can own one of those gems, I've decided to go for one and rewind some memories.
I've to look for my old pictures and scan them. At that time I owned an AGFA silette LK (I could'nt afford a SLR).
Thanks again!!
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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rick_oleson
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
I have a Zenit E, which I bought for $10. Actually I have been quite pleasantly surprised by it: the shutter is smooth and quiet and the camera feels comfortable and solid - nicer than a number of cheaper Japanese cameras (such as Petri, for example), and being rock simple it seems to be quite reliable as well.
It is also rock ugly, of course, and I wouldn't use the selenium meter except as a prism decoration.... and its range of shutter speeds is very limited (though it covers the handheld range pretty well).
At today's prices perhaps you can get a Spotmatic so cheap that it makes no difference, but if you want something for the price of a Zenit, I wouldn't be afraid to go for a Zenit.
I don't know, though, whether the quality got worse in later years. The only Zenits that I have are an S and an E, and both are quite satisfactory. _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
rick_oleson wrote: |
I have a Zenit E, which I bought for $10. Actually I have been quite pleasantly surprised by it: the shutter is smooth and quiet and the camera feels comfortable and solid - nicer than a number of cheaper Japanese cameras (such as Petri, for example), and being rock simple it seems to be quite reliable as well.
It is also rock ugly, of course, and I wouldn't use the selenium meter except as a prism decoration.... and its range of shutter speeds is very limited (though it covers the handheld range pretty well).
At today's prices perhaps you can get a Spotmatic so cheap that it makes no difference, but if you want something for the price of a Zenit, I wouldn't be afraid to go for a Zenit.
I don't know, though, whether the quality got worse in later years. The only Zenits that I have are an S and an E, and both are quite satisfactory. |
Hi Rick, thanks for answering. I've been looking for a Spotmatic, but there aren't too many around eBay. A local colleague (that owns one), offered me a package consisting of three Takumar lenses (50mm 1.4, 35mm 3.5 and 135mm 3.5), the spotmatic SP body, a bellows unit and a multiplier x2 for 400€. It's in mint condition, but I think it's too much for me... specially when I'm only interested in the body.
In the meantime (whilst I wait for a good opportunity), I've seen quite cheap Zenit's, some even with a Helios lens, some the body only for less than 5€. I'm tempted to get one of those 12 ET with the russian letters in the front side, just for the aesthetics , and maybe it does work fine either... Could even be a nice housing to avoid dust going into de Helios lens.
Thanks again for your advice,
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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bob955i
Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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bob955i wrote:
Jesito wrote: |
Could even be a nice housing to avoid dust going into de Helios lens. |
That's the first time I've ever heard of a camera body being used as a lens cap.....
It's normally a Domiplan that's used as a body cap..... |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
bob955i wrote: |
Jesito wrote: |
Could even be a nice housing to avoid dust going into de Helios lens. |
That's the first time I've ever heard of a camera body being used as a lens cap.....
It's normally a Domiplan that's used as a body cap..... |
At 3€, a body is cheaper than a lens cap...
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3
Last edited by Jesito on Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rick_oleson
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
I use bodies as lens caps all the time. Kind of bulky in the camera bag....
If you find a Zenit in good working order for 5-10 Euros, certainly get it. It is a very capable camera; limited, certainly, compared to a Pentax, but it really is more pleasant to use than it is to look at. _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Hi everybody!
I've been sistematically losing bids on Zenit cameras. The winner always surpassed me by 0,5€... Yesterday, a spanish bid that was sold by 6,5€.
But today I've won mine.... A Zenit 122 mint, like new, with an Helios lens 44-M6, case like new...
Just 25,50 €, hope this is not too much. I use to overbid a little.
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3
Last edited by Jesito on Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Congratulation! Enjoy film shooting with an excellent camera.Hopefully it will works, Zenit, Praktica, Pentacon not so famous from permanent quality build. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Attila wrote: |
Congratulation! Enjoy film shooting with an excellent camera.Hopefully it will works, Zenit, Praktica, Pentacon not so famous from permanent quality build. |
Thanks!. I'll show some pictures as soon as it arrive,
Best tregards,
Jes, _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 1865 Location: Romania
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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montecarlo wrote:
Hello and congratulations.
I had a 122 ( here it is -"was": http://cosmin_m.sitesled.com/m42/zenit_122.JPG ). What I like about it is that I can use the shutter button , by depressing it halfway, to calculate the right exposure (the light meter only then goes on) and in the same time to see the DOF, beeing a DOF preview buton, in the same time. So after you are pleased with what you see you just continue depressing it until the shot is made. Another good thing is its ergonomics (except the shuuter time dial).
The thing what I do not like is the same thing I do not like concerning the other Zenit cameras: the very small number of shutter speeds you can choose from.
Good luck with the camera.
PS. Here is a manual, if you don't have one already. http://www.zenitcamera.com/mans/zenit-122/zenit-122-eng.html
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/manuals/zenit-122.htm
http://haardt.net/manuals/zenit122manual.htm _________________ Canonet QL17 III
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0,
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4
Pentax MX, ME Super, Chinon CE4/CM4, Petri MC 28mm f:2, smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Soligor T 135mm f:2.8
Minolta X500, Tokina 28/2.8, Rokkor 50/1.7, 80-205/4.5
Nikon D90, Nikkor 35/2.0, Nikkor 50/1.8, Sigma 24/2.8, Nikkor 18-105 VR |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Wonderful!. Zillion of thanks for the manuals!
I'm looking forward to receive it. I'll be shooting slides as a crazy for a few days, let's see what I can do with it.
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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Borges
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Borges wrote:
katzer wrote: |
I must say that 85mm on full frame is indeed different that 50mm on crop, the perspective is different and I am considering getting a full frame digital slr now (conflicted between 5d now or wait for its successor).
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O.k., we've got you.
After the first look through the viewfinder of the 5D the vf of our old 350D seems to be a small black hole.
Michael _________________ list of lenses:
Helios 44 (many different versions), Jupiter-9 , Jupiter 21M, Jupiter 37AM, Mir-1W, Mir-1V, Mir-10A, Mir-47M, Zenitar Fisheye, Tair 11-2, Industar 50-2 and a few more ...
Our wedding photography blog:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de/blog/
Websites:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de
http://www.dearjohn.de |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
katzer wrote: |
FWIW,
I started taking pics with my Zenit 12xp.
I haven't developed the film yet (soon).
But here is my experience so far:
It is an interesting camera, shutter speeds are limited (30,60, 125, 250, 500) but I can compensate for that with half stops on the lens without messing up my desired DOF too badly.
The viewfinder is nice and bright in my opinion, bigger than the one on my 400d.
The light meter is pretty easy to figure out, though I think an analog one would have been even more useful.
The focus screen is ok, I have at home an SLR like NIKON with a fixed lens (it never worked so it doesn't count) but it has an easier to use focus screen.
This is my first and only film SLR so I can't really compare it.
Another point was that the flash shoe bracket sticks a bit and when I looked through the viewfinder, it presses and hurts my eye socket, the solution was to tape some foam on it, now it is ok.
It is also my only "full frame" camera, and I am quite surprised and the view and perspective offered by a non-crop camera.
I have 3 lenses for it: Helios 44-2 58/2, Mir 1b 37mm 2.8 and a Jupiter-9 85mm f2.
I must say that 85mm on full frame is indeed different that 50mm on crop, the perspective is different and I am considering getting a full frame digital slr now (conflicted between 5d now or wait for its successor).
HIWA (hope its worth anything),
Erez |
Many thanks for your comments!. I got two 35mm SLRs in the past, but they were parked in the drawer since the advent of the digital... (A Minolta X300 and a Fuji STX).
After discovering the manual lenses, I wanted a M42 body to carry along with the digital one and sharing lenses, that's the reason for the Zenith. But as a side effect, I've taken the dust off to the other bodies, and I got a couple of slide films for them...
On the other hand, I see many of you have gotten a Jupiter-9 and all of you are praising it a lot!. That's the lens size that I'm missing now, so after the Zenith I'll go for a lens of that size..
And yes, 35mm are much wider than the cropped dSLRs!!
Michael's comment on the 5D is getting echoes inside the buying zone of my brain, although the refraining side says "too expensive" quite loud.
Best regards.
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
katzer wrote: |
I must say that 85mm on full frame is indeed different that 50mm on crop, the perspective is different |
Hi Erez. So often you see someone say "50mm on a crop camera is the equivalent of 85mm on a 35mm film camera". I've been saying for ages this isn't true. A 50mm lens on a crop camera is just the same as a 50mm lens on a film camera, it just looks through a smaller window. |
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Borges
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Borges wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
katzer wrote: |
I must say that 85mm on full frame is indeed different that 50mm on crop, the perspective is different |
Hi Erez. So often you see someone say "50mm on a crop camera is the equivalent of 85mm on a 35mm film camera". I've been saying for ages this isn't true. A 50mm lens on a crop camera is just the same as a 50mm lens on a film camera, it just looks through a smaller window. |
Yes, Peter, same as here. I spend hours after hours trying to explain that a crop is just a crop, especially regarding DOF - and not more focal length. I convinced them with a full frame image with lines marking the cropped result of a x1,6 camera.
Michael _________________ list of lenses:
Helios 44 (many different versions), Jupiter-9 , Jupiter 21M, Jupiter 37AM, Mir-1W, Mir-1V, Mir-10A, Mir-47M, Zenitar Fisheye, Tair 11-2, Industar 50-2 and a few more ...
Our wedding photography blog:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de/blog/
Websites:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de
http://www.dearjohn.de |
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rick_oleson
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
if you can find one cheap, you need to get one of the 20mm MIR lenses to fit on the Zenit: that's a view you won't get with a crop camera without spending a lot of money!
I'm not sure I quite understand the 50/85 crop-vs-fullframe argument, it begins to sound more philosophical than optical. Unless you get into fisheyes, perspective is purely a function of where you're standing and what you're looking at, it has nothing to do with the focal length.... all the FL does is to determine the size of the window you're looking through. It does this in conjunction with the frame size, so in that respect a 50mm on a 1:1.6 crop camera is indeed equivalent to an 80mm (not an 85mm) on a full frame. Depth of field is different, but there are apples and oranges there too, since DOF also varies as a function of aperture and so is adjustable in any given image.
The 2 images below were shot with the same camera from the same spot with 2 different lenses; I cropped the image from the 50mm lens down to a 1:1.6 ratio to duplicate the difference you would see between the 50 on a 1.6x 'crop camera' and the 80 on a full frame.
(Looks kind of equivalent to me) _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Borges wrote: |
peterqd wrote: |
katzer wrote: |
I must say that 85mm on full frame is indeed different that 50mm on crop, the perspective is different |
Hi Erez. So often you see someone say "50mm on a crop camera is the equivalent of 85mm on a 35mm film camera". I've been saying for ages this isn't true. A 50mm lens on a crop camera is just the same as a 50mm lens on a film camera, it just looks through a smaller window. |
Yes, Peter, same as here. I spend hours after hours trying to explain that a crop is just a crop, especially regarding DOF - and not more focal length. I convinced them with a full frame image with lines marking the cropped result of a x1,6 camera.
Michael |
What you both say makes a lot of sense...
I was confused as many others.
Thanks for clarifying it!.
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
rick_oleson wrote: |
if you can find one cheap, you need to get one of the 20mm MIR lenses to fit on the Zenit: that's a view you won't get with a crop camera without spending a lot of money!
I'm not sure I quite understand the 50/85 crop-vs-fullframe argument, it begins to sound more philosophical than optical. Unless you get into fisheyes, perspective is purely a function of where you're standing and what you're looking at, it has nothing to do with the focal length.... all the FL does is to determine the size of the window you're looking through. It does this in conjunction with the frame size, so in that respect a 50mm on a 1:1.6 crop camera is indeed equivalent to an 80mm (not an 85mm) on a full frame. Depth of field is different, but there are apples and oranges there too, since DOF also varies as a function of aperture and so is adjustable in any given image.
The 2 images below were shot with the same camera from the same spot with 2 different lenses; I cropped the image from the 50mm lens down to a 1:1.6 ratio to duplicate the difference you would see between the 50 on a 1.6x 'crop camera' and the 80 on a full frame.
(Looks kind of equivalent to me) |
Hi Rick!,
So the only difference should be the first shot has better resolution than the second (more pixels, if I've understood properly).
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
rick_oleson wrote: |
I'm not sure I quite understand the 50/85 crop-vs-fullframe argument, it begins to sound more philosophical than optical. Unless you get into fisheyes, perspective is purely a function of where you're standing and what you're looking at, it has nothing to do with the focal length.... all the FL does is to determine the size of the window you're looking through. |
If the behaviour of the lenses was constant over the whole focal range, you would be right, but a wide angle lens (especially if super-wide) captures the world in a different fashion than a normal lens (or a tele lens), so in spite of the apparent equivalence, it is my opinion (not supported by any test so far) that the world captured by a 25mm lens on an Olympus digital reflex (2x crop) should probably look different from the same scene captured by a 50mm lens on an EOS 5D. I'm talking about distortion and subtle proportion differences.
Quote: |
Depth of field is different, but there are apples and oranges there too, since DOF also varies as a function of aperture and so is adjustable in any given image. |
It's true that you can adjust DOF by operating on the aperture, but obviously the DOF of a 25mm lens (to stay with the example above) is significantly deeper than that of a 50mm lens at the same aperture. I have not tested that either, but I suspect that you will not be able to obtain the same narrow DOF that you can get with a 50mm lens and a full frame camera, by using a 25mm lens on a 2xcrop camera instead.
Quote: |
The 2 images below were shot with the same camera from the same spot with 2 different lenses; I cropped the image from the 50mm lens down to a 1:1.6 ratio to duplicate the difference you would see between the 50 on a 1.6x 'crop camera' and the 80 on a full frame. |
I think that the really significant test for this case would be what I described above: to shoot with two different cameras (one crop and one full frame) and with a pair of lenses chosen by taking into account the crop factor in order to produce the same FOV on both cameras. I may try that someday. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
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Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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rick_oleson
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 386 Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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rick_oleson wrote:
Orio wrote: |
If the behaviour of the lenses was constant over the whole focal range, you would be right, but a wide angle lens (especially if super-wide) captures the world in a different fashion than a normal lens (or a tele lens), so in spite of the apparent equivalence, it is my opinion (not supported by any test so far) that the world captured by a 25mm lens on an Olympus digital reflex (2x crop) should probably look different from the same scene captured by a 50mm lens on an EOS 5D. I'm talking about distortion and subtle proportion differences. |
This will be true only if the wide angle lens you're using is a fisheye. Rectilinear lenses, whether wide angle, normal, or telephoto, are rectilinear.
Quote: |
It's true that you can adjust DOF by operating on the aperture, but obviously the DOF of a 25mm lens (to stay with the example above) is significantly deeper than that of a 50mm lens at the same aperture. I have not tested that either, but I suspect that you will not be able to obtain the same narrow DOF that you can get with a 50mm lens and a full frame camera, by using a 25mm lens on a 2xcrop camera instead. |
This is true: the DOF is a function of ABSOLUTE aperture, and the marked numbers on a lens refer to RELATIVE aperture. To get the same absolute aperture on an equivalent lens with a 1.6 crop factor, you would open your lens up an additional 1 1/3 stops (DOF on a 50 at f/1.8 is about equal to an 80 at f/2.8). If you have a 2.0 crop factor camera you would open up 2 stops (a 25mm at f/2 equals a 50mm at f/4).
Quote: |
I think that the really significant test for this case would be what I described above: to shoot with two different cameras (one crop and one full frame) and with a pair of lenses chosen by taking into account the crop factor in order to produce the same FOV on both cameras. I may try that someday. |
Please do. You may be surprised at the result. Whether the crop is done my the edges of the sensor or by cropping down in an editor does not have much effect on the path of the light rays through the lens.
: ) = _________________ I don't know what I want to be when I grow up |
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