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kido
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Posts: 105 Location: Chile
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:04 am Post subject: Wide lens for close distance action photography |
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kido wrote:
As some of you may remember, I really fancy photographing cats. I find it both challenging and rewarding. Recently I've been busy trying to dismantle a colony of felines that settled in the blackberry bush at the end of my yard. By dismantle I mean: catch, neuter, domesticate and give into adoption a total number of 12 homeless cats.
In the process of domestication, I discovered the disturbing fact that my humble collection lacks a decent wide lens which would enable me to become more successful at close distance cat action photography. Too many times have I lost an opportunity because the FOV was not broad enough.
Of course, the Primagon I have is a great lens, but 35mm on a crop body (Canon 60D) isn't really wide.
Therefore I ask for advice as to what lens would fit into the following profile:
1. 24mm or wider
2. Costs less (preferably much less) than $200
3. Image quality over speed
4. Ergonomic: easy and fast to focus.
This last requirement is pretty important. For example, I'm profoundly in love with the already mentioned Primagon but focusing this thing is a bit like turning the steering wheel in KrAZ - you'll eventually get there but it takes some effort. Focus the 50mm 1.7 Sears (Chinon) on the other hand, now that I can do by just blowing air at it. I took the following photo holding the camera in my right hand and rotating the focus ring with my pinky, while pulling the improvised string-toy with my left hand:
_________________ [C&C] on my pictures are most welcomed. |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
Buy a Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II.
Cheap ($199), light, wider than a 24mm, extremely easy to focus (as all auto-focus lenses ) _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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kido
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Posts: 105 Location: Chile
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:23 am Post subject: |
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kido wrote:
Gerald wrote: |
Buy a Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II.
Cheap ($199), light, wider than a 24mm, extremely easy to focus (as all auto-focus lenses ) |
Thanks for your sacrilegious suggestion , but AF is not an option. It just can't keep the pace even with the AI servo on. Or better said, for this particular application, my senses are faster and more accurate at focusing than AF is. I can predict, I can anticipate, I can decide, I can control, I can be aware of things - all that AF can't do. I'm certainly getting more keepers when manual-focusing, that's for sure.
I own the Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS that came with the camera. Even though it has the word "compromise" written all over it, it's a great all-rounder lens. If I'm not mistaken it has been praised for its fast AF working well even in adverse situations. This is how I know it doesn't cut the mustard for me. This is also how I decided that 24mm would be OK and 18mm would be even better but probably not possible to get at the aforementioned price.
Oh, and I should also have mentioned that I don't really care for size or weight. When talking about ergonomics I was referring more to the usability: focus ring placement, size, operation etc. _________________ [C&C] on my pictures are most welcomed.
Last edited by kido on Wed May 07, 2014 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bruzzo
Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Posts: 153
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:57 am Post subject: |
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bruzzo wrote:
Samyang 24/1.4 seems pretty close to your needs? Wide and fast for indoor action that requires fast shutter speed. But only probably not close focus enough for some situations. But I highly doubt that I can nail focus when I'm at 1.4 or 1.8 the DOF is so thin, but I guess you should be way better at this than I do from what you've mentioned.
But even so, Gerald's suggestion is still valid cause you can always use manual focus ring on your AF lenses. Another choice is the Sigma 18-50 F2.8 Macro which gives you fast shutter speed at F2.8, 18mm wide focal length, and macro / close focusing capability for indoor close action. Assuming you are using APSC of course. The Tokina 12-28 F4 is something even wider but also covers till 28mm, not as fast since only F4, and not sure about minimum focus distance. |
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kido
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Posts: 105 Location: Chile
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Wide lens for close distance action photography |
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kido wrote:
bruzzo wrote: |
Samyang 24/1.4 seems pretty close to your needs? |
Besides the price, yes This is why I wrote:
kido wrote: |
3. Image quality over speed
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because I'm aware that speed comes at a price. Anyway, it's not really that important in this case since indoor natural light is usually OK for this:
but not for this:
bruzzo wrote: |
indoor action that requires fast shutter speed |
Using strobe I'm pretty much stuck at max sync-speed or slower but it gets me enough light to work with almost any reasonable aperture. The lens I'm looking for doesn't need to be super-fast, especially that (as you mentioned) it narrows the DOF which doesn't help with moving subjects. 2.8, 3.5 or even slower is OK by my standards. All my photography is purely recreational, I'm always learning and trying to improve my technique (if I have any to begin with). Things doesn't have to be perfect, just enjoyable
bruzzo wrote: |
you can always use manual focus ring on your AF lenses |
From my experience, many cheap modern APS-C AF lenses have hideous focus rings that are more of a gimmick than a real tool. But then again, my experience isn't considerably vast and I'm sure there are exceptions.
bruzzo wrote: |
Tokina 12-28 F4, Sigma 18-50 F2.8 |
Tokina is too expensive. Used Sigma can be had at $200 on Ebay, how does it perform as an MF lens? _________________ [C&C] on my pictures are most welcomed. |
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
I have been searching for a good 24mm for quite some time.
I tried many, and, in the end, I settled with the nikon ais 2.8/24.
It does pretty much everything, and it does it fine: it looks good wide open, it has nice colors, and it is sharp both at mfd and at infinity.
I really Don't think you can buy anything better in its price range.
Also, the focus ring is super light and smooth (even too light for my taste sometimes), which I understand it can be a good feature for you.
If you need wider you can probably find a tokina 17/3.5 that fits your budget, with a bit of patience.
But prices for decent ultrawides are always growing, so if you think 24 is wide enough you can save some money and get a better lens.
Beautiful cat shots, btw, especially the action ones. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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tromboads
Joined: 29 May 2012 Posts: 1655 Location: Melbourne AU
Expire: 2015-10-01
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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tromboads wrote:
I've been throwing up getting a Nion 24 Ai-s or a Super Tak 24mm
Did you try the Tak when you went through them all? |
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 1632 Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
kido wrote: |
... It just can't keep the pace even with the AI servo on. Or better said, for this particular application, my senses are faster and more accurate at focusing than AF is. I can predict, I can anticipate, I can decide, I can control, I can be aware of things - all that AF can't do. I'm certainly getting more keepers when manual-focusing, that's for sure.
.... |
Yeah, manual focus rules
I have the same, with the (slow AF) EOS 5D and my AF lenses I am much to slow to take photos of my children.
I love your cat images, seems I need to read your old threads
Whats about the manual Tokina 17mm/3.5 - it is on the slow side, could give focus problems. On 1.6x crop I like the image quality. On 1x the vorders are sometimes a problem, but most times the lens is still usabel with EOS 5D.
Probably the Sigma 24mm/2.8 Super Wide II could be a better option. A bit faster, the borders on fullframe are bad wideopen - but for crop this should be no problem. Short minimum focus distance. _________________ Camera modification, repair and DIY - some links to look through: http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html
I AM A LENS NERD!
Epis, Elmaron, Emerald, Ernostar, Helioplan and Heidosmat.
Epiotar, Kameraobjektiv, Anastigmat, Epis, Meganast, Magnagon, Quinar, Culmigon, Novotrinast, Novflexar, Colorplan, Sekor, Kinon, Talon, Telemegor, Xenon, Xenar, Ultra, Ultra Star. Tessar, Janar, Visionar, Kiptar, Kipronar and Rotelar.
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
tromboads wrote: |
I've been throwing up getting a Nion 24 Ai-s or a Super Tak 24mm
Did you try the Tak when you went through them all? |
I had the takumar for a while: it is good, insanely sharp in the center but corners start to get less nice already on aps-c.
It has amazing build quality and flare resistance (mine was s-m-c), in pure takumar style, but it shows some chromatic aberrations, and by some I mean quite a bit, not the kind of stuff that only pixel-peepers see.
(Disclaimer: these are all non-scientific observations based on my experience with one copy of the lens)
Add that it is kind of uncommon here, and then averagely expensive.
Briefly: for the same price I'd buy the nikkor without hesitation. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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std
Joined: 09 Feb 2010 Posts: 1826 Location: Bulgaria
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: |
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std wrote:
Great Cat pictures
I can offer you a Cosina 2.8/24mm in Pentax K mount for 39 Eur.
https://plus.google.com/photos/102695694284849176806/albums/5880118879039290721?banner=pwa
it may not be the perfect 24mm lens (probably Nikon is better) but it's good (certainly better than my copy of 2.8/20mm Flektogon) and it works quite nice on EOS.
I can dig some pictures taken with it if you are interested. _________________ Stefan
My lens list:
SLR MD: Rokkor 1,7/50 Exakta: Kilfitt-Makro-Kilar E 3.5/4cm; CZJ 2/50 Pancolar;M42: CZJ 2.8/50 Tessar; Mir-1B 2.8/37; Jupiter-9 2/85 T-mount: Tamron 5.9/200; Tamron 6.9/300; Tamron 7.5/400 C-mount: Cosmicar 1.8/50 Y/S: Sun 3.5/38-90, Sun 4/70-210 RF Contax RF: Jupiter-8 2/50; Contax G:CZ 2,8/21 Biogon T; CZ 2,8/28 Biogon T; CZ 2/35 Planar T; CZ 2/45 Planar T; CZ 2,8/90 Sonnar T |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7794 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
For a cheap and perfectly good 24 look for a Ensinor / Tefnon / Clubman / lens, it comes with many names.
http://forum.mflenses.com/mystery-lens-ensinor-24-2-8-macro-t17823.html
I use mine a lot, it might not be the sharpest or fastest lens in the world, but it's not a bad lens either. I'd say it's best bang for the buck. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I suggest getting a Tokina AF 3.5-4.5/20-35 or 19-35 (same lens really, just the 19-35 was a cheaper revision with more plastic. They are really cheap and pretty common, and the AF will be more than fast enough because with such a wide angle lens, you have a ton of dof. I think this lens outperforms all but the very best old manual ultrawides. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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kido
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Posts: 105 Location: Chile
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: |
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kido wrote:
Thank you guys for all your input. I realized that it's easier to get advised on IQ than on usability. It's too much of a personal thing, especially for such a peculiar task. So I did the next best thing and went on a shopping spree.
I started with the cheapos. I got really intrigued by the Ensinor recommended by Lloydy (already found it sold under 7 or 8 different names) and by the Tokina Ian mentioned. Last weekend I managed to win both on ebay for what I believe to be quite reasonable money. I'll play with these and if I won't like them, they seem pretty easy to sell so I can always move upwards.
I was already considering Nikkor's 24mm Aanything suggested when I asked the original question, but this one seem to be 24mm benchmark, hence it sells at much higher prices. Nevertheless, I'll keep my eyes open and if I spot one at a good price I'll probably get one too, at least to check what's all the fuss about
Aanything wrote: |
Beautiful cat shots, btw, especially the action ones. |
ZoneV wrote: |
I love your cat images |
std wrote: |
Great Cat pictures |
Thank you, really appreciate it. I'll try and share more whenever I'll find some time to sort and develop them first
ZoneV wrote: |
seems I need to read your old threads . |
Haha, I bet you will find at least one cat in most threads I started _________________ [C&C] on my pictures are most welcomed. |
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asfethan
Joined: 08 Apr 2014 Posts: 74 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:56 am Post subject: |
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asfethan wrote:
Yesterday I lost battle for Tokina RMC 17mm 3.5 on evilbay. It went for 94£ so it's in your budget and what I read it's very nice lens with great performance.
So it is possible to get even better and wider lens than set zoom for reasonable not-so-high price. _________________ best regards, Jaroslav
flickr
camera
Pentax K10D
lenses
Hoya HMC wide-auto f2.8/28mm (PK)
Auto Chinon Multi-Coated f1.4/50mm (PK)
SMC Pentax-A f1.7/50mm (PK)
Porst Tele MC auto D f2.8/135mm (M42)
Hoya HMC tele-auto f3.5/200mm (PK)
Hoya HMC zoom f4/80-200mm (PK)
software
RawTherapee
Gimp
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Rick1779
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 1207 Location: Italy
Expire: 2014-06-06
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Rick1779 wrote:
I've reached the goal with 24mm with the Pentax FA*24/2
But is Af and in KAF mount
And is overbudget _________________ TELLTALE
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Congrats on the Tokina, I think you will love it. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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asfethan
Joined: 08 Apr 2014 Posts: 74 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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asfethan wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Congrats on the Tokina, I think you will love it. |
Who got it?
offtopic: I read recently some infos about Hoya f2.8/28mm and I think it's you who love it if I remember this correctly. So, my Hoya is on the way _________________ best regards, Jaroslav
flickr
camera
Pentax K10D
lenses
Hoya HMC wide-auto f2.8/28mm (PK)
Auto Chinon Multi-Coated f1.4/50mm (PK)
SMC Pentax-A f1.7/50mm (PK)
Porst Tele MC auto D f2.8/135mm (M42)
Hoya HMC tele-auto f3.5/200mm (PK)
Hoya HMC zoom f4/80-200mm (PK)
software
RawTherapee
Gimp
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kido
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Posts: 105 Location: Chile
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Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:20 am Post subject: |
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kido wrote:
Thank you again for all your suggestions. As a quick follow-up on the original question, here are my first impressions on both the Tokina 19-35mm and the Ensinor 24mm.
Tokina 19-35mm f/3.5-4.5:
+ I love this focal range, exactly what I needed
+ As I wrote before, didn't really care for the AF but I must admit it's quite fast for such a cheap lens
* The IQ by no means is bad but somehow still doesn't convince me. I need to shoot some more before I decide if it offers me any advantage over the kit Canon 18-200mm lens
* The MF ring is crappy but at least it's there
- It's absolutely rubbish in adverse light conditions
Ensinor 24mm f/2.8
* 24mm is enough for what I wanted but the variable focal range and these extra few mm on Tokina obviously gives more flexibility when it comes to close distance cat action
+ At least on the crop body, the IQ is great. Especially when you consider what this lens costs. Must admit I expected much less when acquiring it and would choose Ensinor over the Tokina at 24mm every single time. I know, I know... zoom vs prime isn't really fair, I'm just giving my impressions.
+ The MF ring works great and is very precise
I'm yet to find a negative side of this lens (maybe the purple fringing... but it's manageable).
f/2.8
And finally some action (not wide enough this time)
_________________ [C&C] on my pictures are most welcomed. |
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JohnBar
Joined: 21 Jun 2012 Posts: 581 Location: Liverpool
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Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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JohnBar wrote:
Tamron 01B , fast and wide _________________ Rectilux 3FF Series single focus anamorphic attachments
http://www.transferconvert.co.uk/cinemania/rectilux-3ff.html
Regular News on https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rectilux/704770636267200 |
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kido
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Posts: 105 Location: Chile
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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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kido wrote:
Newfie wrote: |
I am a cat man as well and I also have the ensinor 24mm and it is supurb for the money.
Your shots of your cats with this lens are terrific
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Thank you, I really appreciate it.
Newfie wrote: |
This is one of these lenses that just about do it all. |
Exactly, it's definitely a keeper for me. To be honest I won two of these on eBay. There is some variation but they look almost the same, even though they were made under two different brands. One day I'll do a proper check to see if there are any differences besides the looks. After the shots I've already taken, it seems to me that indeed there are.
Anyway, I wonder how does it compare to the Nikon AIS that Aanything recommended.
JohnBar wrote: |
Tamron 01B , fast and wide |
I almost won one of those too, but I was bidding at the last moment, my internet connection went down for a few seconds and my bid didn't went through. I took it as a sign from God telling me that I really don't need to buy 4th lens it he same focal range But maybe one day... I have a soft spot for Adaptalls _________________ [C&C] on my pictures are most welcomed. |
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