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3.5/50mm Tessars
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: 3.5/50mm Tessars Reply with quote
After seeing the beautiful 3.5/50mm tessars that Hubert and Orio are privlaged to have I was looking to get one of the industar 50s that I believed to be the copy. But looking around a bit I stumbled across the russian industar 22 (for zenit): http://cccpcamera.photo-web.cc/RussianCamera/Lens/Industar22/I22_Zenit.jpg

I must say this looks much similar to the design of the tessar than the 50 or 50-2 do. The 22 appeared on the zenit 1 for only a couple of years. It was believed to be a "stepping-stone" lens. Than the standard became the mass-produced 50/50-2. I wonder if the performance would be on par. Any thoughts?

~Marc


PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Both are good performer and perhaps true Russian did steal Tessar like many other lenses from Zeiss.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The industar-50 (in any of its version) is precisley a copy of the Tessar. So I expect the performances to be nearly identical, although I think that the T coating should make the Jena lens a little better performer against the light.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Marc - I have no experience with Industar-50. As Orio said, this is of course optical copy of German Tessar (4 elements in 3 groups). My Tessar surprised me!
My cousin has old silver copy, but I can't use it because I haven't M39/M42 adaptor. I read that Industar-50 is quite good performer against the light.
By the way I've never heard about Industar-22. This Lens looks so nice Smile


PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If it was even REMOTELY close to the character of Orio's lens, it would be good. I'm STILL reeling from Orio's shots with the 50/3.5 Tessar! The shots have made a "place" in my mind.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
According the J.-L. Princelle book, this Industar-22 reflex lens was sold with the first Zenit camera generation (1953 - 56, 39,1019 units built).


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Industar-22 and 50, 50-2 are really good performers .My 22 outperforms my old elmar !
Some pics .

Industar-50-2 on Istdl

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1439/1411338137_25dc7b120e_b.jpg


Industar-22 on scanned (polaroďd ) bw Film Efke kb-100

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2060/2192470668_b96c3ea997_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2192467286_13f708252a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2104/2192464778_45ec9b6f2b_b.jpg


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The industar-50 (in any of its version) is precisley a copy of the Tessar

That´s true.
It is the same with Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar and the russian Helios.

Quote:
Russian did steal Tessar like many other lenses from Zeiss

But I would not say, that the Russians did steal it. Russia lost the most people stopping the madness of hitlerism in the second world war. Like french people they claimed a reparation after this terrible war.

But there are important differences between Industar and Tessar: The Tessar has a "build-in-hood" (the optics rest very deep), so one does not need an additional hood and the contrast is better. For the Industar it is very difficult to find a hood that fits with its tiny thread.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Russian steal these lenses and killed 10x more people than Germans ever in history... only history cheaters say always bad, bad Germans and good Russians. Russian had most longer and worst dictatorship in history started with Lenin in 1919. Russian stolen everything what they could, lenses, shoes , watches what you want... Under second war and after they were the most barbarian people. You are in Germany , ask old German people about madness...


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Retro wrote:

But I would not say, that the Russians did steal it.


Hm... the Soviets depredated artworks (73 paintings of great masters) from the houses of many German people, artworks that now embellish the halls of the St. Petersburg Hermitage museum:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE6DE1538F933A05750C0A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

and they keep them in spite of the numerous claims from the heirs of the legitimate owners to have them back. And that was a theft.

It's also true that they were not the first ones, and neither the last ones, to make war plunders (see for instance an entire wall of frescoes that was detached from a Mantova private palace, and now is in the Louvre in Paris...)
But still, that doesn't make it a legal action, to steal private properties of citizens in a war... and such was Zeiss... Zeiss was a private industry not a state property. Soviet Union did not have any right to steal Zeiss equipment, and neither was allowed to kidnap German Zeiss technicians and threaten their families, in order for them to work for Soviet Union... but they did...


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Atleast there can be a figure as to what was looted out of Europe, But what Country like India who had estabilshed societies & literature dating back to BC .. still have the most prized artifacts, some even fundamental to certain cultures within india, decorating England's museums.
There is literally celebration in national dailies, if something comes up for auction & an Indian billioner buys one back...


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think most Russians would reply that they lost 23 million people during the war...nearly 3x that of the Germans...a little reparation in the way of optics was in order. I'm certainly not saying this is a fully justified argument, but making sweeping statements about the 'barbarity' of the Russians really doesn't get you anywhere. It's easy to say, especially as an American like myself, that the Russian's aggressive policies were the predominant factor forcing the onset of the Cold War, which is completely unfounded. You can divide things into good and bad, black and white all you'd like but every side is guilty of some infraction.

~Marc


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dakoo wrote:
Atleast there can be a figure as to what was looted out of Europe, But what Country like India who had estabilshed societies & literature dating back to BC .. still have the most prized artifacts, some even fundamental to certain cultures within india, decorating England's museums.
There is literally celebration in national dailies, if something comes up for auction & an Indian billioner buys one back...


Yes, I think we can safely say that half of the Egyptian collections in both the Louvre and the British Museum, are plain thefts.
Sometimes nice reparations happens: a few years ago, the Italian government gave back to Ethiopia the ancient obelisk that was stolen from them in the Thirties. It was, I think, a corageous act, because the obelisk was the centre of a famous piazza in Rome, and giving it back changed the landscape of the city. But what is right is right, and that was rightly done.
But there are many obelisks decorating famous squares of capitals in Europe, that were stolen, but so far, only that one has been given back... Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
themoleman342 wrote:
I think most Russians would reply that they lost 23 million people during the war...nearly 3x that of the Germans...a little reparation in the way of optics was in order.


Sorry, but the premise is not possible. Private properties can not be given away as war reparation. Even private houses that are on territories that change nationality, remain to their owners (unless the new nation makes ethnic cleaning, that is... but this is another matter).
Zeiss was private property. The land Zeiss factory was in, could have been object of war reparation (but it wasn't), the Zeiss goods ownership, no. Period.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I think most Russians would reply that they lost 23 million people during the war...nearly 3x that of the Germans...a little reparation in the way of optics was in order.


23 million people at least half killed by own people!! They were barbarian , no one kill same quantity from own nation than Stalin. Nobody has right to steal from any occasion...


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
All of the deaths due to war or own people = reprehensible behavior by ANY nation. In EVERY nation there are barbaric acts. Finger-pointing one nation over another is pointless. The peace-loving people (who I like to think we are on this forum) will always be mortified by these kinds of actions.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excuse me: I did not want to push a political off-topic discussion.
My sentences about "stealing" where "by the way".
I am not especially "pro or con" Russia (then or nowadays).
Your answers are O.K. for me.

As a suggestion to close the debate: Let us be happy not being involved in such a war. And what Laurence said above:

Quote:
The peace-loving people (who I like to think we are on this forum) will always be mortified by these kinds of actions.

What I especially love in this forum is not only its specialization to M42-lenses but also its multinational and real global spirit.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No problem to say anything what you want to say. If you think something say ... on this forum you can do. M42 world small world compare with MF lenses world Smile I also started with Nikon and M42 lenses and now I am very happy to with Minolta, Contax, Konica etc.
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