Century Graphic 23 with Mamiya RB67 70mm back

[iangreenhalgh1]

My new shooting set, sadly I broke the 70mm back on first outing so I'll have to shoot 6.5x9 sheets with it for the time being, luckily I have 50 sheets of Orwo NP15 and 25 sheets of Orwo ortho microflm to fit it and a dozen double filmholders. Lens is a Linhof Schneider Xenar 3.5/105. I also have a Schneider Angulon 6.5/68 to fit it.

[Attila]

Impressive, combo ! Look forward your shoots!

[Nesster]

That's a truly nice camera, probably the lowest cost to a technical camera there is, and extremely well built. Nice lenses also.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Cheers guys. I need to get a new 70mm back, sadly as I don't think I can fix this one. Never mind, I have plenty of 6.5x9 sheets and I also have a Graflex 120 back so i can shoot 120 with it as well.

[luisalegria]

Lovely piece, very good shape its in.
Mine generally have the "well used" look.

You can get 70mm film ?

[iangreenhalgh1]

There's always some old 70mm aero films on ebay. I can buy 100ft rolls of fujichrome cdu-II for 9ukp, a few years out of date, got some in the fridge, if I can get 70mm to work for me (and now I need a new back ) then I will grab some more before it's sold out.

[Nesster]

By the way, to hijack this a bit, here's a pretty interesting set up, a P67 mount on a 4x5 Speed Graphic:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-medium-format-645-6x7-645d/214597-one-get-2.html

[iangreenhalgh1]

That's rather nice. I plan to find a cheap Bronica 40mm and remove the cells, they pop straight into a #0 shutter as you would find on a 6x9 folder. Not sure if it will cover 6x9 but definitely covers 6x7 so if I use a Mamiya back, the Bronica 40mm will be pretty sweet I think, will certainly be a lot cheaper than a APO-Grandagon 35mm.

[Lloydy]

Is the winder beyond repair? post a picture or two- I have machines and can make a lot of stuff.

[mmelvis]

Very nice camera setup

[Orio]

WOW! Did you rob a bank? A dream set!

[iangreenhalgh1]

I'll get some pics posted of the winder, looks like I snapped the metal shaft. I'm on the lookout for another Mamiya back with something else broken to salvage parts from.

This was actually pretty cheap Orio, has to be for me to afford it.

[Orio]

Really? I thought that the Schneider lenses alone would cost a little fortune.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Yes, the camera came with the Linhof Xenar. The Angulon 5.8/65 cost me 40ukp in Synchro-Compur. Mamiya 70mm back cost me 18ukp and ten 70mm cassettes cost me another 21ukp.

Symmars are pretty common and quite cheap, just not easy to find them in the shorter lengths, 150 and 210mm ones are very easy to find at cheap prices.

I expect the Xenar will be good enough, so I won't need to upgrade to a Symmar or anything more modern. Sometime I hope to pick up a broken Ensign Selfix 820 dirt cheap so I can remove the Ross Xpress 3.8/105 and try that. I doubt it's better than the Xenar, just it's a lens I've always been curious to try, it was designed to beat the contemporary German 6x9 lenses such as the Xenar. Tessar and Skopar.

Sometime I might try my Componon-S 5.6/100 as a taking lens, the cells unscrew from the barrel and fit a #0 shutter.

I also have a Mamiya 2.8/80 from a broken Mamiyaflex, in working Seikosha shutter, it's supposed to cover 6x9 but I'm not so sure, I'll have to try it on the Century Graphic to find out.

Bronica SLR lenses also have cells that can be removed and will screw into standard shutters, the 40mm has cells that fit a #0 shutter and would be interesting to try, all the Bronica lenses are pretty cheap, a 105mm might be a cheap upgrade from my Xenar and the 75mm would be useful too, not sure if they will cover 6x9 but they definitely cover 6x7. There are also the Mamiya Press and Koni Omega lenses.

Shutters are the problem, #00 and #0 shutters can be found on many old folders so are pretty cheap, but many lenses need larger shutters, I'm on the lookout for a #1 shutter, which can be found in oscilloscope cameras which do turn up on ebay fairly often, I missed out on a Polaroid CR-9 and a Shackman 7000 in recent weeks, both had useful shutters, the CR-9 had a Prontor Press #1 self cocking shutter and the Shackman had an Ilex.

[luisalegria]

Note that the folders with front cell focus generally have a different shutter front thread than the proper #00 Compur.
The folders with unit focusing are what you want.

#0 shutters was for the larger cameras, with 13.5cm standard lenses.

I don't recall seeing any front cell focus versions in that size from German makers, so that should be reasonably safe, as long as you stick to the rim-set Compurs. The older dial-set types sizes can be different, I have tried to get a 12cm Tessar from an old Compur, which should be a #00, into a newer dial-set and it is obviously not.

American cameras have totally different and non-standard threads, even if they have German shutters. I have some very nice Bausch&Lomb marked Deckel Compounds that should be #0, off Kodak 3A folders, and they are certainly not the same thread as proper German ones. As for the Wollensaks, older Ilex, and the Graflex rebranded, etc., the threads are different.

[iangreenhalgh1]

I went through all my junk/for restoration cameras and this is what I found:

Balda Baldinette 35mm - has a Prontor-S shutter, I think #00 as the Componon 80 cells fit it, shutter is jammed up totally though.
Vario from a Kershaw folder (it says Vario 540 on the faceplate) this is the same size, what I think is #00, Componon 80 cells fit but sadly shutter blades are bent so shutter is dead
Vario from a Zeiss Nettar 6x6 - again, waht I think is #00 size, Componon cells would fit but there is a thick metal shim in the front of the shutter so it's useless.
Frank Rolfix 6x9 - has a Prontor II shutter, a size larger than the above, so I think this is #0. Has a Rodenstock Trinar Anastigmat in it, sadly it has gummed up now and sticks on all speeds apart from 1/50 but was working last time I used it less than a year ago so I might be able to clean it and get it working. Cells from my Componon-S 5.6/100 fit this shutter
Ensign Selfix 220 - unit focussing, has an Ensar Anastigmat in a Prontor This is the same #0 size as the Rolfix, Componon-S 100 cells also fit this one, sadly this shutter is also gummed up and sticks on all speeds, again I hope I can clean it and get it running properly again.

So my conclusion from this limited sample is that 35mm and 6x4.5 and 6x6 folders have #00 size shutters usually, some 6x6 have #0. 6x9s have #0.

Of course, this is a gross generalisation and as you say, there will be a ton of variation.

My next step is to read up on cleaning and restoring shutters as I want to get my Rolfix and Selfix 220 working again and I have a feeling I will find more shutters that need fixing.

[luisalegria]

Lighter fluid (naptha) is your friend, with most Prontors, and I think also their predecessors the Varios.
These were not internally lubricated so it should easily and safely clear up a lot of faults. If there are other mechanical problems that won't suffice, but it works quite well for most I have found.

Compurs are more of a problem. The clockwork escapement (slow speed regulator) on all of these, old and new, was lubricated.
So just soaking Compurs with naptha won't do. The first thing that can happen with a limited naptha wash is that some of the existing oil will end up on the blades, which will require repeated soakings to dissolve. The next problem is that the slow speeds probably wont work anyway, as the clockwork siezes up without lube. So you have to lube it, which means you have to open the shutter, carefully lube the thing, make sure its running right and the new lube hasn't gotten to the blades again, and reassemble it all properly.

The old dial set Compurs are much easier to fix than the rim-set. Reassembly is easy and the clockwork is out in the open and easy to get at for careful oiling. The rim-sets frankly require some luck for duffers like me. I have gotten a bunch running through trial and error, but thats a lot of errors.

[rawhead]

Not to jack but here are my two Centuries. I'd be happy with one, but the Apo-Grandagon is a hassle to take on and off. Since it's pretty much hyper focal at infinity, I might just take the Kalart off the camera to make it super compact. Also need a viewfinder that represents the FoV of this lens. The Xenotar on the other one is a little jewel of a lens; little brother of the much more famous Xenotar 150/2.8.




Note also that the Apo-Grandagon is mounted on a lens board that I designed and had Shapeways.com 3D print it:

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rawhead

Comes out to be less than half what it would cost to get a "real" aluminum lens board prepared at, e.g., SK Grimes.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Thanks for the tips luis, I have some lighter fluid, I'll remove the Prontors from the cameras and give em a good cleaning with the fluid and q-tips, get rid of all the accumulated gunk then see how well they work then. I need to get the Compur my Xenar is mounted in serviced, it sticks open on all but the top 4 speeds.

Those are lovely graphics with great lenses.

Those lensboards are well priced, I might have to order a couple sometime.

I'd love a Xenotar or Planar 2.8/100 or a Symmar, but the Mamiya 2.8/105 is a lot cheaper and probably almost as good or the old Kodak Ektar 3.5/101 which is a supremely sharp optic, there's also the Bronica 3.5/105 that you can take the cells out and mount in a shutter easily. I actually have more interest in older lenses for their vintage look, the aforementioned Ross Xpress 3.8/105 or the Dallmeyer Pentac 2.9/4 inch for instance or perhaps a dialyte type, they are renowned for their sharpness and creamy rendering but also lower contrast due to 8 air-glass interfaces and no coatings on most of them.

I'll never be able to afford an APO-Grandagon so either a 47mm Angulon or a Mamiya TLR 45mm or a Bronica 40mm remounted in shutter will have to suffice, the Bronica being my preference as it's the most modern design and has multicoatings.

At the end of the day, it's a case of what comes along cheap.

For your Grandagon's viewfinder, maybe a Ricoh GR 21mm viewfinder? Or you could get creative by taking a cheap wide angle converter and mask it to match the fov - that's what I plan to do.

[rawhead]

Thanks, if you need any other sized hole, just let me know, I'll make it available on the Shapeways site

Regarding a fast 100~mm, A Uran-10 100/2.5 went for an OK price recently on Ebay: Click here to see on Ebay. I sent a Best Offer for $180 or so and was declined and I believe it sold for like $270. I would've taken it at that price just to check out a rare Russian lens, If I hadn't recently gotten another Uran for 4x5 from the same seller Click here to see on Ebay.

Looking at some Russian documents, the Uran-10 looks like it's identical to the Uran-27 that Dan Fromm has. http://www.galerie-photo.com/2-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html

[iangreenhalgh1]

Cheers, I think 00, 0 and 1 sized holes should cover just about anything I would need.

I've not seen a Uran before, I'll check em out.

It's not speed I seek to be honest, I just want the best 'normal' length lens I can find at an affordable price. The Xenar I have is probably good enough, but I'm also sure that the more modern designs have some advantages.

Even a 1937 uncoated Skopar 3.5/105 performs very well on 6x9, this was at f8:



My other Bessa with an uncoated Voigtar 3.5/105 triplet is pretty capable too:

[rawhead]

That's right, you're not the speed-demon, so to speak :LOL:

OK, I'll have a 00 version available on Shapeways, too. Cheers!

[iangreenhalgh1]

Me? Built for comfort, not for speed as my granny used to say.

00 would be useful because the Angulon 6.8/65 fits that size shutter, I think the 47mm Angulon does too.

0 and 1 are definitely more useful though. I'm trying to find a working 0 from a 6x6 or 6x9 folder and a 1 from an oscilloscope camera, missed out on a couple of 1s, either because they were the MP4 version with no aperture (good for front mounting barrel lenses though) or went outside my budget. They are quite common on ebay though, I want one to put the cells from a Mamiya 645 2.8/45 in, no idea what the coverage of this lens is, it should do 6x6 but I doubt it will come close to 6x9.

[rawhead]

OK, #00 size is ready to go

[danfromm]