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Live view focusing
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Live view focusing Reply with quote
I think I found the silver bullet. This is with 5DII.
Of course this is not fast but works with up to 50mm (and wider).

a) First design the scene and crop, slightly larger if in doubt because you really can crop from 21 mp.
2) Run the "square" to the point you want to be focused.
iii) focus first with 5x then with 10x, wait until shaking ends, press shutter and there it is

works for me.

any alternative techniques?


PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I use Magic Lantern, as I did with the 7D, and have almost identical with the guys with Sony Nex,

[]s,

Renato


PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
on the 5DII you can also use magic lantern, it can add a little zoomed square or focus peaking with colors
I always forget liveview, especially when leaving this aquarium, I was surprised that I didn't think about using it
I am wondering if I will forget optical viewfinder when I will get a mirrorless


PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
thanks, I think I'll try that

Do you use Eg-S with tele lenses or what?


PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You do press that shutter using a remote control of some sort, don't you?
Macro wise, of course.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Himself wrote:
You do press that shutter using a remote control of some sort, don't you?
Macro wise, of course.


no, that's the nice thing - you can do this handheld, up to 55mm, just tried my Micro-Nikkor at relatively low light


PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Then we are talking different things, not macro.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Micro-Nikkor does 1:2. That is not macro but close-up?


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
on the 5DII you can also use magic lantern, it can add a little zoomed square or focus peaking with colors
I always forget liveview, especially when leaving this aquarium, I was surprised that I didn't think about using it
I am wondering if I will forget optical viewfinder when I will get a mirrorless


I picked up my Zorki the other day and got very confused when I couldn't see the image on the back! Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
poilu wrote:
on the 5DII you can also use magic lantern, it can add a little zoomed square or focus peaking with colors
I always forget liveview, especially when leaving this aquarium, I was surprised that I didn't think about using it
I am wondering if I will forget optical viewfinder when I will get a mirrorless


I picked up my Zorki the other day and got very confused when I couldn't see the image on the back! Laughing


yes, I know the feeling

http://forum.mflenses.com/idiot-feeling-t7008.html


PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,

I still prefer optical viewfinder on my 600d in terms of composing photos, but with manual lenses LV is the only way to go, as for me focusing with viewfinder is more like guessing than real focusing.

However I used similar technique as you mentioned - 5x, 10x magnification, now I use MagicLantern, but with option that image will be magnified fullscreen by 5x or 10x (as you prefer) by half-pressing shutter button. It's more convenient than having magnified window on 3" screen.
Rest is easy:
-1st - I compose the image,
-2nd - with arrow keys set focusing point,
-3rd - half-press shutter button, quick manual focus and just press shutter button to take a photo or depress(?) shutter button to check if the composition is all right and then shoot.
(The half-press button magnification could be find in Prefs/Live View Zoom tweaks, or somewhere on Display tab - I don't have my camera with me at the moment, but this feature is not hard to find.)

I've tried Focus Peak function but it was terribly unreliable and found out magnification is the only 99% way to get your photos focus spot on.
I never owned NEX, but as far as I was playing with it in shops and while visiting friends my opinion is focus peaking is similarly unreliable as on MagicLantern in Canon Wink


PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
How do you focus tele-lenses over 55mm?

I been trying with focus confirm but not sure how it works?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kansalliskala wrote:
How do you focus tele-lenses over 55mm?

I been trying with focus confirm but not sure how it works?


If this question is for me than answer is easy - I focus longer lenses the same way, but found out 5x magnification is easier to hold still and is enought for spot on focusing. Also I have started to use Screen Viewfinder Loupe (bought on evilBay Wink ) which gives better camera handling as you can support camera on your eye/head like you do with optical viewfinder.

Cheers
Mateusz


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Focusing Reply with quote
I've discussed this matter once with an Zeiss expert! The most precise method is to focus with an DSLR over LiveView, because there are many weak problems with non-adjusted focusing screens and diopter settings! But he said also, there will be no 100% which are also not really required, for the most three dimentional objects! Wink


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
On my Nikons (D3100 and D3200) I put the cam in live view and press the + button to zoom in. Use the direction arrows to move the square about the screen. This also works when shooting in video. there is no assist but it does a great job and is dead easy


PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Focusing Reply with quote
OPAL wrote:
I've discussed this matter once with an Zeiss expert! The most precise method is to focus with an DSLR over LiveView, because there are many weak problems with non-adjusted focusing screens and diopter settings!....


+1

Most of the OVF's are more like a projection screen for the AF lenses instead of being a focusing screen Very Happy

Everyone should test the accuracy of OVF against the LiveView in his cam and adjust the screen exactly.
The OVF are factory adjusted often with wrong washer's / Shim's.

So i adjust all my cams with washers you can buy from your local canon service point in a set of 10 pcs. with different thickness of 0,05-0,150... this example shows a washer from a Canon cam (5D MKII or MKI, dont remember exactly)



With this shims its possible to nail the accuracy near 100 % of the LiveView results.

Price for a complete set of this shims on Canon SErvice point in germany is about 25 Euro + shipping...

If you have "tuned" your viewfinder, reorder the installed value and resell the whole set. So everyone who wants to do the same has a complete set and so the price for a single shim is reduced to 1/10 of the whole set.

Here is a schematic, whats going on in your Viewfinder and how to make use of the Shim's

http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/test-fsen.htm

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Focus screen adjustments Reply with quote
I have in my Canon 5DMkII an special € 160 focusing screen from the BRIGHTSCREEN company, which does not exists anymore, to my information. It works very precise with all my C/Y Zeiss glasses!

Zeiss at Oberkochen/Germany has an special plotter and all thinkness of materials to cut all kinds of special washers for various focusing screens! But, such improvement measures are definately not cheap!

Unfortunately, I do not own the superb OTUS lens. If I would have it, I would definately take care to have the diopter setting and focusing screen of my camera, perfectly adjusted, for perfect use of this fantastic lens, especiallly wide open at 1,4! I guess, otherwise, you might not get not to see the full optical qualities of the OTUS glass!


PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So buying Eg-S doesn't help if you don't shim the thing right?


PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kansalliskala wrote:
So buying Eg-S doesn't help if you don't shim the thing right?

no need to shim a canon screen, if the dslr is not calibrated, send it to Canon to fix it
on my 40D and 5DII, the canon eg-s screen was perfect ( extremely perfect )
on my 400D I had to shim, but this dslr was not made to get replaceable screen and I guess canon didn't care to calibrate
with non canon screen , I guess shim will be needed


PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
kansalliskala wrote:
So buying Eg-S doesn't help if you don't shim the thing right?

no need to shim a canon screen, if the dslr is not calibrated, send it to Canon to fix it
on my 40D and 5DII, the canon eg-s screen was perfect ( extremely perfect )
on my 400D I had to shim, but this dslr was not made to get replaceable screen and I guess canon didn't care to calibrate
with non canon screen , I guess shim will be needed


Wrong... make an experiment with you 5D MKII.... take a f1.2 lens and a tripod... do exact focus work in the optical Viewfinder....
after that, switch cam to liveView mode and you will see the difference...

You will realize, that there mostly are differences.

To send the cam to a service point often turned in a desaster...

On my old 5D the mirror they did a mirror replacement after he was broken.

Cam came back and the EE-S was totally misaligned.

Same happens some months ago... with my 5D MKII which did get a new shutter because the old fails after 63.000 aktuations. with ERR99...

But it wasnt the shutter, the defect was somewhere in the mirrorbox, so they replaced the complete mirrorbox..

The service point workers transplant the EG-S screen simply from the old and defectiv mirrorbox in the replacment mirrorbox... without making any adjustment on the Screen... so i have either to send the cam again to the service point or do this by myself.
I decided to do it 100% accurate by myself... because i havent seen a Canon Cam "out of the box" which works absolut correct with her focussing screens

Most of the Canon DSLR cams are not correctly alligned for manual focus work... why... because normally they have lenses with Autofocus drives... and there is 100% accurate alignment not neccessary..

Lots of people from my own forum do have alligned the focussing by herself, because they were not satisfied with the results also on EE-s oder EG-S Screens.. especially if you shoot with fast or very fast lenses.

Make the test as described.. LiveView against optical Viewfinder alingment (dont forget to diopter before)...

Last edited by hinnerker on Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
without making any adjustment on the Screen...

sorry to read about your misadventures after only 63.000 pics
but how was the calibration before the problem, did you had focusing problems
since my problems with the 400D I check all my slr and dslr, and all are perfect
with the 400D, I never get the absolute precision, I could not made a shim less than 0.05mm
Happy New Year !


PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
Quote:
without making any adjustment on the Screen...

sorry to read about your misadventures after only 63.000 pics
but how was the calibration before the problem, did you had focusing problems
since my problems with the 400D I check all my slr and dslr, and all are perfect
with the 400D, I never get the absolute precision, I could not made a shim less than 0.05mm
Happy New Year !


Happy new year also to you...

On my old 5D classic the change to a EE-S screen makes focus work easier but not 100% exact. So i adjusted the screen in large series of testsshots, until i get the reachable maximum

Same game starts with the 5D MKII

After buying the 5D MKII new in 2009/2010 (not a used one), i changed the normal screen to an EG-S screen (as you know its the counterpart of the EE-s screen of my old 5D classic).

Focus accuracy wasnt 100% out of the box after testing. So i had to adjust again with shims/washers.

But on 5D MKII it was a lot easier because of the liveView - feature.

Some weeks ago i did rebuy also a second hand Canon 5D classic from a member of my forum, with build in EE-s screen and a "shaved mirror" for the use of my converted Canon FD lenses.

This 5D was aligned with 3 pcs of very thin shims of about 0.04mm each.

But nevertheless, for correct focus work, the cam needs only 2 of them in the viewfinder path to get maximum results.

What i want to say is: The chance to get a viewfinder with 100% alignment from an "out of the box- cam" is not very high.

Mostly the alignments are "OK" but you most of the times you can increase the accuracy.

Especially if you shoot with very fast lenses, like 1.2 or long telephoto lenses above 300mm (have got an old nFD 4.5/500mm L tele),
this increasement is neccessary.

For shooting with lenses in a normal range, this very small tolerances are acceptable and often not noticed by the user.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
something like this would be handy but these are for video and don't have easy flipping the camera for portrait orientation
edit: also the shutter handling looks bad

and the link ..
Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I am using LiveView for focusing I tether my camera to my tablet PC and have an 8 inch screen for focusing. The tablet pc is small enough to fit in the camera bag.
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