Anyone get the Ricoh GXR and Lecia M module?

[tromboads]

I saw these when they come, was interested but couldn't afford it / didn't really want it.

Now the bodies are $300 and the Lecia M plate is about $500. Now I'm interested in them again. There is somethings alluring about using Dirty old Russian, German glass again.

With a short flange, and that M mount, (and perhaps updated modules in the future right??) it seems like it would be a flexible little piece of kit.

$800 to play with old Jupiter's tho..

Did anyone here buy one?

[Jesito]

[iangreenhalgh1]

The price of GXR + M module is not attractive imho, it's only a 12mp APS-C sensor after all so a NEX or NX is far cheaper and probably works just as well with RF glass, certainly all the RF lenses I've put on my NEX have worked great.

[rbelyell]

i have had many digi slrs including the 5d, omd, x100 and the gxr m mount. imo, the only reason to get the gxr is for the m mount. unlike any other digital, it is engineered specifically for use with manual focus lenses, specifically m39 and leica m mount rangefinder lenses. it does not have an AA filter, but does have a pattern of microlenses designed to bring out the individual charater of these lenses, with the effect of micro contrast, clarity and color that vaults the 12mp sensor beyond the well reviwed omd and past sony and fuji when it comes to IQ when coupled with these lenses. to be sure, this camera cannot compete with the 5n or the fuji X's when it comes to shooting above iso1600 in low light. but it surpasses them when using RF lenses in all other situations. i wouldnt pay much attention to those who dont have this setup because this is one you really have to see in person and compare it to results youve gotten with these same lenses on other digis to really appreciate how amazing the results are.

ergonomically it is small-smaller than the omd, but not too small like the sonys. just small enough to make it really fun and convenient to use. it feels really solid and well made, and feels great in your hand. imo the evf is absolutely necessary if the main use is intended with the m module. focus aids include two different types of focus peaking and custmizable magnification, all of which work very well. the menus are extensive, but gives one virtually every capability they could want to achieve their goal and capture the decisive moment. as for cost, it is most certainly worth the money, no doubt about it. check out results both on this forum and the rangefinder forum, though as i mentioned before, second hand results tell only part of the IQ story.

i bought mine used with the evf for less than $800, but knowing what i know now, i would gladly have paid more for the results i get. i should say that i dont shoot russian lenses, but canon, nikkor, leica and voigtlander. this is not a thread about russian lens quality, but my own personal opinion is that i did not get results from them that come close to the other RF lenses ive used. i say this not to start debate about russian vs other rf lenses, but simply because i sold my russian lenses before i bought the gxr, and thus cannot personally vouch for those results.

if there is any other way i can help with your decision, please let me know.
tony

[iangreenhalgh1]

When you can show an image with RF glass and the GXR that surpasses what a NEX or NX can do then you might have a point. Until then it's just theory.

RF glass works fine with the NEX, even with an AA filter and without specially designed microlenses. Even non-retrofocal wides work fine, as with this Biogon 2.8/35:



Even with an AA filter, the humble NEX-3 is plenty sharp enough with the 4/135 Sonnar:




So this unique selling point of the GXR about being optimised for RF glass might be true, but it doesn't mean other, cheaper cameras don't work fine with RF glass.

[rbelyell]

there are theories based on nothing but opinion and theories based upon personal experience. its constantly tiresome to hear from those who dont understand the difference and muddle up others threads with their mediocre results, which prove nothing because they do not incorporate the equipment at issue. i reiterate my offer, as one who actually shoots the subject equipment, to OP to help out if wanted. but i won't respond to further empty-headed prattle.

[Jesito]

I've heard too many good opinions and seen many good samples from the M module (and the sensor inside) from both local and international colleagues that I don't put its quality on question, in my case is only an investment issue. 800€ is too much for me at this time (module M plus adapters). GXR is a very capable camera, with tons of firmware features (far beyond the most spread brands).

If I had financial freedom to go for it, I would go for sure.

My experience with the NEX-7 and Leica glass was not good, I don't know really why but the results were poor (better on the NEX-5). Also my overall opinion on the NEX line of sensors is the RAW files they generate trend to degrade faster than the other brands (giving a stronger grain) when processed, even if they may give a good dynamic and ISO ranges.

I'm still attached to the Samsung NX sensors, they give cleaner RAWS at low ISO.

Ian, I don't see any reason to be so aggressive against rbelyell opinions, they are as respectable as yours.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Sorry Jes, I wasn't being aggressive, my apologies if it seemed that way.. Tony likes to insist everything he says is hard and fast fact, rather than opinion, I just gave my opinion, obviously Tony hates people disagreeing with him, that's his own personal issue.

I'm still not convinced the IQ of the GXR for 800eu offers anything a 200eu NEX or NX can do. As I said in my last post, until I see pictures to prove it, I remain sceptical.

Anyways, my point was that the NEX and NX are great to play with old Jupiters, and I don't think you need a GXR to get great results from those lenses, that was what the Op was musing about.

[Jesito]

[iangreenhalgh1]

Sure Jes, that would be wisest.

My point was merely that the NEX is great for using with Jupiters, I love the 8, 9 and 11 on the NEX, sadly the 12 doesn't fit.

Sorry if the phrasing of my point was troublesome.

[tromboads]

Where are you guys getting these cheap nex's from? I cant find a nex 3 for under $500. not that i was looking terribly hard. :p nor that I'd really want one either.

Yeah look I'm not super concerned with issues of "image quality". A small well laid out camera with M39 support is what attracted me to the Ricoh. Image quality from what I've seen and read seems more then acceptable!

Looking over vids of the interface, it looks wonderful! nice and simple, quick. no fud! That's important.

Anyway this all came about because I kind of have one eye open in looking to replace the K10d I've been using. Criteria revolves around not being any larger, nor as small as a nex.

I suppose I thought there would be a heap of you guys into such a little thing considering the nerdy appeal of the sensor beings sans AA, along with the Lecia Mount. Actually the whole camera reeks of a photo nerd sitting down and designing it from start to finish really. And I dig that.

But I suppose Nex's are cheap.

[tromboads]

[aleksanderpolo]

Here's an old thread comparing GXR-M with 5N-the NEX that is most M friendly, can you clearly see the difference, whether the difference matters to you or not is a personal matter though.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1069998/0

If you have a subscription to Sean Reid's review site, he has a detailed comparison between the GXR-M and 5N, again showing the 12MP GXR-M punching beyond the 16MP NEX, especially with wide M.

What I think is under appreciated, is how nice the mode 2 focus assist works as well as the number of customizable button on GXR-M. Without menu diving, I have button access to shutter speed, ISO, white balance, exposure compensation, focus assist, focus magnification, exposure mode, continuous mode, flash compensation and flash power. And there is still a macro button that has not been allowed customization by firmware yet.

If you are looking to buy a GXR now however, I would wait till the end of the month. As Ricoh might announce something at CP+ (GRD V is rumored), so you might see a further price drop.

I am a happy user of GXR-M and have not been tempted by NEX-6/7 or Fuji's offering, even though they have the latest sensor, let alone NX that cannot use M lenses. Like Tony said, you need to use it to appreciate it.

[tromboads]

Yes it those shortcuts and command access that had me interested in it. It just seems like such a wonderfully well thought out, and laid out device.

Good call on waiting for the announcement on the new one


#Edit. Got to the end of that review. What a no brainier re image quality. that little A12 sensor is a gem.

[rbelyell]

[Orio]

[iangreenhalgh1]

Interesting, the NEX does much more poorly than I would have expected. I do know that my NEX-3 does much better than that with all the rf glass I own than his NEX-5N did with his CV lenses. I've shot two Zeiss Opton Biogon 2.8/35s on my NEX-3 and one had some slight magenta colour shift in the corners and one didn't. All my Jupiters, both M39 and Kiev are great on the NEX-3, as are the CZJ Sonnars 1.5/50, 2/50 and 4/135, CZJ Triotar 4/85 worked great too. I'll have to get an M39 adapter for my NX100 and see how that fares with the same lenses.

[kuuan]

just searched the net for some more comparisons GXR+M module vs. NEX5N, since already I have these sites open I simply share them:

comparisons:
same as linked before, different presentation: http://ricoh-gr-diary.blogspot.com/2011/12/ricoh-gxr-a12-m-and-sony-nex-5n.html
user reports: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114735
R-D1 in the mix: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica-m-x-r/32437-r-d1-vs-gxr-vs-nex-5n.html
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3085895?page=1
incl. cautions of comparing sensors of different MP: http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/171740-interesting-comparison-nex-5n-ricoh-gxr-a12-m-module-2.html
role of AA filter, sharpening of 5N: http://fratkinphoto.blogspot.com/2012/01/effects-of-anti-aliasing.html
http://www.digitalversus.com/digital-camera/face-off/ff9359fd710d57de71d73f4ff5607824f7650429

user report: \
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1043757/2

reviews:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/ricoh_gxr_a12_field_report.shtml
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/28/the-ricoh-gxr-a12-m-mount-module-review-by-ashwin-rao/
http://photo.net/equipment/ricoh/gxr-review/
http://outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_2007_01/section_gear_cameras_2011/20110917_Ricoh_GXR_M-Mount/index.html

[aleksanderpolo]

Thank you Kuuan for these links, didn't know there are so many reports out there

It is likely that the CV15 and CV12 present the most challenging case for NEX. The lack of microleneses tuned for RF lenses starts to show their effect below 35mm for more symmetical design (ZM), so it is likely that you won't see any problem with your 50-135mm lenses.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Thanks for that info Aleksandr, I can confirm none of the 50mm+ lenses give any issues, the 35mm Biogon, as I said earlier, gave very slight magenta corners on one copy but not on another.

[rbelyell]

hey alex, how are you?

of course you are correct that certain 'issues' like color cast, corner smearing, lack of overall clarity etc have to do mostly with the interplay of the microlens design and wider FLs. however, would you not also agree that, regardless of FL, the microlens design of the gxr allows the individual signature charactersitics of these fine lenses to more fully emerge and show themselves as they were meant to be, whereas the lack of same on any other non M camera does not? to me that is a separate, but equally important IQ difference the gxr enjoys.
tony

[aleksanderpolo]

Hey Tony,

I agree that the GXR seems to be showing more of the native character of the lens, I am not sure however whether this is due to the micro lenses or due to its lack of AA filter (but without the Xtrans nonsense). The raw taken with AA sensor always seems to have a layer of "fog" on top of the image, compared with GXR's clarity. The K5IIs seems to have the same kind of clarity from the samples I am seeing.

Glad you are still enjoying your GXR.

[rbelyell]

yeah, i wholly agree with the fog metaphor, exactly what my experience was.
tony

[tb_a]

Hi everybody,

I don't know whether this would be still of interest but it's at least a reason for my first posting here.

I am since a few days (besides some other gear) a happy owner of the Ricoh GXR/Mount A12/VF-2 assembly incl. GR Lens A12 28mm (which is actually 18,3mm).
My motivation to go for that equipment was driven by the fact that I have already a lot of MF-lenses with some of them out of the M39/Leica M family.
I already have two EVIL cameras but both of them lack of specific features which are implemented in the GXR. The most important feature for using MF-lenses is to have best support for focusing the lens correctly (even in bright light).
My Panasonic GF-1 lacks of the so called "focus peaking" feature and the optional first generation viewfinder is more or less useless to focus correctly in difficult situations.
My second one, the Sony NEX-C3 is luckily equipped with "focus peaking" but unfortunately there is no viewfinder at all available for that camera.
So I was in need of a camera with a good viewfinder AND "focus peaking" which by now only Sony's NEX-5/6/7 and Ricoh's GRX offers.
In addition to that Ricoh have implemented similar features as Leica to cope with all kind of manual lenses (old and new) to avoid such nasty unwanted results as produced by the NEX type of cameras (e.g. purple edges in combination with manual wide angle lenses).
Leica is far beyond my budget, so I was more or less forced to go for the Ricoh. Luckily the price for the GXR went down recently

My first experiences so far proof that it was exactly the right decision. The GXR is the right gear for old lenses with very good support for manual focusing also in bright light situations. I can use the GXR with ALL my lenses from my analog 24x36 Cameras.
In addition I must say that the GXR in combination with the A12 28mm module is a very nice and almost pocketable camera which produces brilliant pictures due to it's APS-C sensor.

Any comments are welcome.

Regards, Thomas

[rbelyell]

yes thomas i totally agree with you. the gxr can handle well any slr adaptable lens. it does however work best with rangefinder m39 and m mount because the microlens setup is specifically designed for them to bring out their unique charachter.
tony