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Distagon T* 1,4/55 new high-end SLR lens
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Distagon T* 1,4/55 new high-end SLR lens Reply with quote
http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/?p=3307


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice result from the video.
Thanks for sharing.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Distagon 1.4/55? Sounds a bit unusual, s Distagon was the name for retrofocus wide angles, I wonder how the design of this varies from the Planar 50mm?


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Distagon 1.4/55? Sounds a bit unusual, s Distagon was the name for retrofocus wide angles, I wonder how the design of this varies from the Planar 50mm?


It is certainly a retrofocus design. The name says it, and the number of elements supports it, too.
55mm is not such an unusual focal lenght for a Distagon, the Distagon 4/50 (for Hasselblad) and the Distagon 2.8/45 (for
Contax 645) are examples of retrofocal lenses in the so called "standard" FL range (45-55mm) - of course they were
for medium format cameras which makes them wide equivalents, but in absolute terms the focal lenght is the same.

I think the idea with this lens was obviously to overcome the limitations of the double Gauss scheme in terms of chromatic
and spherical aberrations. Instead of introducing aspherical elements in a double Gauss scheme (something that must not
be so easy and comfortable with a 50mm-ish focal lenght, since I don't remember many APO lenses of the same kind), Zeiss
did choose to use a higher number of elements and the retrofocal scheme to correct the issues. And I'm sure they threw in one
or more aspherical elements too, and quite certainly a floating element as well for close range correction.

I expect a quite expensive lens due to the abundance of glass, the aspherical and floating factors, and most of all the f/1.4 speed,
which has certainly requested the use of precious high dispersion glasses.
I think it will be a real groundbreaking standard lens, one that sets a new trend. Big respect for Zeiss, they seem to have recovered
their leading role in the glass industry. I don't remember any new Leica lens so groundbreaking in the recent past.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I saw the lens and some test images at Photokina 2012. and now I hope to get pretty fast a copy to test :O)


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
From the Zeiss blog (19 September 2012):

Quote:
Carl Zeiss is heralding a particularly powerful new full-frame SLR lens at photokina 2012. Dr. Michael Pollmann, Consumer Lenses Product and Program Manager in the Carl Zeiss Camera Lenses Division, is addressing strengths and technical details of the new high-end SLR lens family in a Q&A.

What is meant by “high-end SLR lens family”?

This is about lenses for full-frame (36x24mm) SLR cameras with manual focusing capability. This family of lenses is geared towards delivering uncompromising image quality for demanding users. The lenses are perfect for high-resolution, full-format digital cameras with more than 30 megapixels such as D800. The combined performance approaches that of medium format systems. If you shoot with the largest aperture, cameras with smaller number of pixels also benefit from much better image contrast.

Will it be a family or just a single lens?

It will be its own family of lenses independent of our current ZE and ZF.2 lenses.

What focal lengths will be available?

Currently, we are developing three prime lenses, with more in the planning stage. We are not ready to reveal them at this time.

How much will the lenses cost?

Since the lenses are more demanding in terms of material selection and construction than our previous ZE and ZF.2 lenses, the price level will be higher. We are expecting prices around EUR 3,000.

For which bayonets will the lenses be available?

They will be available for EF bayonet (ZE) and F bayonet (ZF.2).

Where will the lenses be made?

The lenses will be manufactured in Japan. They will be developed in close consultation with our longstanding global production network of trusted partners in the optical industry to ensure that the lenses’ actual performance corresponds to their theoretical optical design performance.

What does “uncompromising image quality” mean?

The new lenses will achieve extremely high image quality throughout the entire picture including edges even at maximum aperture. At the same time, chromatic aberration is extremely low.

How come 1.4/55 is considered a Distagon type despite its standard focal length?

Due to the high performance required, we were looking for a fresh approach. It is true that the Distagon type is predominantly found in wide-angle lenses. This is because wide-angle lenses also require additional design effort in terms of number and arrangement of lenses. Since we were aiming for the best possible imaging performance for the new family of lenses, we decided to manufacture the 1.4/55 as a Distagon. Due to the number and arrangement of lenses, this lens unit is slightly larger in size and weight but uncompromising in its performance.

When will the first lens come to market?

The expected arrival is autumn 2013.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Distagon 1,4/55mm Reply with quote
The new lens contain 12 glass elements, that the reason, why this glass is so big. I've seen comparable color prints made from various standard lenses, also from other competitors.

I can only say, this is an absolutely "dream lens" which beats ALL other standard glasses presently on the market!

YES, I can hear already the questions about the new Apo Leica-M 2/50mm! I am sure, we will see comparable tests between these two super glasses!


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the Leica lens takes a very conventional approach to the technical problems of the typical standard lens. Both lenses seem to be labeled as groundbreaking but I think that title only goes to the Zeiss. I also think Leica has an important consideration when designing lenses: size. The Zeiss is big but they never promised small. The leica-M system is supposed to be compact and balanced. They can't really design these super-complex, many-element lenses because they would throw off that balance. Maybe I'm wrong and leicaphiles would embrace anything with the name. I just hope Zeiss really succeeds with this one.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sure this will be a great lens, but is it too much to ask to treat the public as grown-ups? I just looked at the video on Zeiss blog at it's a washing detergent advert complete with comparison to "ordinary 50mm lens". I don't think my "ordinary 50mm f1.4 lenses" under 100 Euros would show such a huge amount of CA as their test victim shows. Not to mention that the lens is huge and to me this is a serious downside. IQ is just one of the parameters...


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The price level of this lens (approx. 3000 Euros) clearly targets it to professionals who need the best possible optical quality and who use the lenses in a studio or in otherwise controlled situations (such as weddings).
For that use, size is not a concern. In the studio, the lens just sits there, and wedding photographers (the serious ones at least) always have at least one assistant for carrying stuff, positioning lights, etc.
Obviously the amateur photographer who uses his equipment for country walkarounds on on vacations does not need this kind of size, weight and probably also cost.
But for his needs, there are already the lenses in the ZE/ZF.2 line.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sure, for studio use the size does not matter. Professional work is not limited to studio shots though, so I don't think the size issue is so simple. Fast max aperture suggests less controlled environment anyway. Obviously for some people in the target market the size is not a deterrent, for some it will be. I wonder what's Hari's take on size issue? Wink


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
I wonder what's Hari's take on size issue? Wink


Take two? Shocked


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Himself wrote:
fermy wrote:
I wonder what's Hari's take on size issue? Wink


Take two? Shocked


Laughing

i'm losing sleep over the pancolar 75/1.4 Click here to see on Ebay.de

i'm not willing to pay 6,000€ for it when a mint copy went for appx 3500€

problem is, no idea if/when another copy will show up Rolling Eyes

so yeah, theoretically, for 6,000€ i could take two Laughing


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just find it fascinating that Zeiss chose to create a 12 element retrofocus design for a 'normal' lens after 60 years of making planar type 'normal' lenses. Could this mean that 6-8 element Planar/Ultron type designs are now obsolete?


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I just find it fascinating that Zeiss chose to create a 12 element retrofocus design for a 'normal' lens after 60 years of making planar type 'normal' lenses.
Could this mean that 6-8 element Planar/Ultron type designs are now obsolete?


I think the reason is the new breed of sensors with extreme resolution. The wide open performance of double Gauss lenses
is not up to this level of performance. The choice of a retrofocal design was obviously considered more opportune for
correction of wide open optical shortcomings. Whether this new lens will provide equally beautiful out of focus rendering is
an open question though. We'll have to wait and see.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I just find it fascinating that Zeiss chose to create a 12 element retrofocus design for a 'normal' lens after 60 years of making planar type 'normal' lenses. Could this mean that 6-8 element Planar/Ultron type designs are now obsolete?


Yes, they are obsolete. m4/3 Panasonic 25/1.4 is 9 elements in 7 groups, including two aspherics. Sony E-mount 35/1.8 is 8 elements in 6 groups.

Orio is right, double Gauss lenses don't look too good wide-open on modern sensors with huge pixel densities. Also with modern computing capacities it's not a big deal to calculate lenses with many elements. My guess is that we will be seeing more and more such lenses in the near future, not only from Leitz/Zeiss, but also from mainstream manufacturers.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting. The only thing that appeals to me about the m4/3 system is the cheap prime lenses, I'm just not fond of zoom lenses so most modern lenses don't appeal to me.

I'm still pretty happy with 6, 7 and 8 element planar/double-gauss types or 6 element sonnars, but one day I might have to sample a modern prime, most likely the Samsung 2/30 for NX as it's dirt cheap and I have an NX.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For the kind of amateur work that we make, a good double gauss normal lens is perfect.
But if I open a photo studio, and have to make professional work, I will surely want to invest in the best possible lens that I can afford.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think that target market is obvious - professionals, who would like to have digitalback-like picture quality, but cannot afford digital back. D800E with good enough lens might be solution, and I don´t think at this moment there´s normal prime good enough to keep up with sensor resolution.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Machine vision systems could work better with a fast lens with such a quality wide open.
We produce for example a 29 megapixel camera - this lens would be a perfect fit.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZoneV wrote:
Machine vision systems could work better with a fast lens with such a quality wide open.
We produce for example a 29 megapixel camera - this lens would be a perfect fit.


I'm sure that there is R&D of that kind, too, behind this lens. Zeiss produces optical equipment for medical and industry too (it is actually their core business today).


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
...
I'm sure that there is R&D of that kind, too, behind this lens. Zeiss produces optical equipment for medical and industry too (it is actually their core business today).


I think for Zeiss "photo" lenses it is good fortune that industry need good lenses for machine vision. And more and more cameras have a 24x36mm sensor inside. Furthermore Nikon "G" lenses are a bad thing for machine vision - good for Zeiss too.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZoneV wrote:

I think for Zeiss "photo" lenses it is good fortune that industry need good lenses for machine vision.


Indeed.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: New Apo Distagon T* 1,4/55mm Reply with quote
Yes we can, I guess, is the proper Zeiss answer to the superb 6000 € Apo Summilux-M 2/50mm lens!

But the optical design of the 12-elements Apo-Distagon retrofocus super lens is I guess, much more complicated, and will be available in far more pieces, for the top professional FX Canon and Nikon DSRL's!
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