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Why use MF lenses other than Pentax or Nikon?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:43 am    Post subject: Why use MF lenses other than Pentax or Nikon? Reply with quote
While I have been thinking about picking up a NEX-5n to use multiple brand lenses, it really bothers me not being
able to use benefits of DSLRs. At least with Pentax and Nikon lenses you can buy brand new DSLRs that maintain
most if not all of the features of their legacy MF lenses. With other brands of lenses, like Minolta MD, Canon FD, etc,
you are stuck with very little features and only on mirrorless bodies. That seems like too much to give up to me.
To those using those other brands and on mirrorless bodies, what benefits do you get that make up for what you
lose to make the endeavor worth while?


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What benefits do you need? Once you've used a NEX and gotten familiar with the focus peaking and 14x focus assist you'll understand. As long as the lens has focus and aperture, you don't need anything else with a NEX. Best of all, you can use rangefinder lenses that won't work on DSLRs and some of those are really worth having.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Manual focusing on a mirrorless body with 14x magnification and peaking in live view blows away anything you can dream of on DSLR. So I have no clue what you are talking about. What features are you afraid to lose, AF Laughing ?


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Manual focusing on a mirrorless body with 14x magnification and peaking in live view blows away anything you can dream of on DSLR. So I have no clue what you are talking about. What features are you afraid to lose, AF Laughing ?


Hey, this is getting worrying, you keep saying what I was trying to say! lol

Nice to agree...


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Biggest loss, assuming the mount allows infinity focus, is automatic aperture operation.
This is of course an extremely useful feature.
However it isn't an absolute requirement. I can live without it.

BTW, in the case of a Canon DSLR there are many more mounts that can be adapted with infinity focus, including Contax/Yashica, Rollei and Exakta.

My biggest problem with the mirrorless cameras is that they are nearly impossible to use with handheld telephoto, unless they have an electronic viewfinder, and even with that I doubt it would be the same.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Biggest loss, assuming the mount allows infinity focus, is automatic aperture operation.
This is of course an extremely useful feature.
However it isn't an absolute requirement. I can live without it.

BTW, in the case of a Canon DSLR there are many more mounts that can be adapted with infinity focus, including Contax/Yashica, Rollei and Exakta.

My biggest problem with the mirrorless cameras is that they are nearly impossible to use with handheld telephoto, unless they have an electronic viewfinder, and even with that I doubt it would be the same.


Actually Luis, if the lens has a tripod mount, telephotos work okay with the NEX. With even a fairly modest sized telephoto like the Konica 3.5/200, you can't very well use the camera on a tripod mounted via it's own tripod mount, the lens on the front is too much mass too far from the centre of gravity and it wobbles too much. But something like the Tair-3 4.5/300 that has a tripod mount works fine. What you need is one of the clip-on viewfinder magnifiers, then all is good, I've successfully shot a 540mm lens on my NEX using this method.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
My biggest problem with the mirrorless cameras is that they are nearly impossible to use with handheld telephoto, unless they have an electronic viewfinder, and even with that I doubt it would be the same.

Me too, and the EVF doesn't make any difference. But in my experience, DSLRs with tele lenses are pretty difficult too. I can't be bothered with a tripod most of the time, I find something solid to rest the lens on instead.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, if you can't be bothered with a tripod then you're not going to have much success with telephoto lenses imho. Trying to handhold anything longer than 135mm on a mirrorless camera is just going to drive you up the wall, trying to use 14x focus assist handheld with a telephoto lens is crazy to be honest. With a tripod, even 500mm+ lenses can be handled without too much difficulty.

It's a case of technique being more important than camera choice.

Maybe a monopod is what you need if a tripod is too much hassle.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tripods are the spawn of Satan. I renounce them, and all their appurtenances.
Unless I really, really can't avoid it of course.

With my Pentax DSLR I can handhold up to 400mm, with excellent results.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I used to be able to shoot my Tair 300mm handheld with my EOS no problem, but it's nigh-on impossible to handhold the Tair on the NEX. Maybe a monopod would work, I don't have one because I like using a tripod.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm with Luis on the hand-held issue. MY K-7 allows easy 400mm hand-held images with pin-sharp focus down to about 1/60th. 1/50th if I'm really lucky. Also, Pentax has image stabilization with all lenses, and I don't think any other makes can say that.

Aren't telephotos with tripod bushings also balanced to have a camera's weight on the end? With the Nex being so much lighter, that would seem to make the lens handling slightly more difficult.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Manual focusing on a mirrorless body with 14x magnification and peaking in live view blows away anything you can dream of on DSLR. So I have no clue what you are talking about. What features are you afraid to lose, AF Laughing ?

Automatic aperture and optical viewfinder for starters....


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Biggest loss, assuming the mount allows infinity focus, is automatic aperture operation.
This is of course an extremely useful feature.
However it isn't an absolute requirement. I can live without it.

BTW, in the case of a Canon DSLR there are many more mounts that can be adapted with infinity focus, including Contax/Yashica, Rollei and Exakta.

My biggest problem with the mirrorless cameras is that they are nearly impossible to use with handheld telephoto, unless they have an electronic viewfinder, and even with that I doubt it would be the same.

well if you have to give up automatic aperture and handholding telephotos, thats asking quite a lot to give up IMHO.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hifisapi wrote:
fermy wrote:
Manual focusing on a mirrorless body with 14x magnification and peaking in live view blows away anything you can dream of on DSLR. So I have no clue what you are talking about. What features are you afraid to lose, AF Laughing ?

Automatic aperture and optical viewfinder for starters....


Neither are any loss at all, focus peaking and 14x focus assist make optical viewfinders obsolete and I've never missed auto aperture, it's only needed if you have a reflex system.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
luisalegria wrote:
My biggest problem with the mirrorless cameras is that they are nearly impossible to use with handheld telephoto, unless they have an electronic viewfinder, and even with that I doubt it would be the same.

Me too, and the EVF doesn't make any difference. But in my experience, DSLRs with tele lenses are pretty difficult too. I can't be bothered with a tripod most of the time, I find something solid to rest the lens on instead.

I rarely use a tripod with my tele lenses but I nearly always use a monopod which makes for a good compromise.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
hifisapi wrote:
fermy wrote:
Manual focusing on a mirrorless body with 14x magnification and peaking in live view blows away anything you can dream of on DSLR. So I have no clue what you are talking about. What features are you afraid to lose, AF Laughing ?

Automatic aperture and optical viewfinder for starters....


Neither are any loss at all, focus peaking and 14x focus assist make optical viewfinders obsolete and I've never missed auto aperture, it's only needed if you have a reflex system.

How can you say that unless you focus with the lens stopped down to shooting aperture all the time which will make focusing less accurate in many cases because the dof gets deeper...


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
hifisapi wrote:
fermy wrote:
Manual focusing on a mirrorless body with 14x magnification and peaking in live view blows away anything you can dream of on DSLR. So I have no clue what you are talking about. What features are you afraid to lose, AF Laughing ?

Automatic aperture and optical viewfinder for starters....


Neither are any loss at all, focus peaking and 14x focus assist make optical viewfinders obsolete and I've never missed auto aperture, it's only needed if you have a reflex system.

Optical viewfinders have way more resolution than lcd or evf. They also get BETTER in bright light, not worse, like a lcd does.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think you need to use a NEX for a while before you comment further to be honest, then you might understand what I'm saying. I was sceptical about the lack o a reflex system until I actually bought one and started using it. Didn't take long before I decided I would never want a DSLR again.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I think you need to use a NEX for a while before you comment further to be honest, then you might understand what I'm saying. I was sceptical about the lack o a reflex system until I actually bought one and started using it. Didn't take long before I decided I would never want a DSLR again.

why didnt you just answer my question rather than avoid it ? ? ? Without autoaperture you either have to leave the lens stopped down while focusing which isnt good or you have to open up, focus, stop down, shoot which isnt good either. And I dont have to go to alaska to know it snows there. IF mirrorless was so good both Canon and Nikon would be onboard by now but there not. The point of this thread was for people to explain why they choose mf lenses for which there is no dslr to use them with. I havent heard enough yet to be convinced mirrorless is as versatile as dslr.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
"you have to open up, focus, stop down, shoot which isnt good either"

It isn't that bad. You do get used to it. Most lenses I use on DSLR are M42, not Pentax K, so I have to do this nearly all the time. It works out. After a while its second nature. I benefit more from the support of AV exposure mode with manual aperture; on Pentax bodies old K-mount lenses (other than the -A types) can only meter properly in M mode.

And plenty of my lenses are preset anyway, so big whoop.

I have tried a Nex5; it really is a pain with even a handheld 135mm.
Since I'm nearly always scrambling around in 3 dimensions with at least a 200mm, that whole family of bodies is right out. Tripods aren't going to follow me up a tree or under a bush.

But its a pretty personal matter.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hifisapi wrote:
IF mirrorless was so good both Canon and Nikon would be onboard by now but there not.



LOL, both Nikon and Canon have mirrorless cameras. So are Pentax, but neither of their models is all that great really, the Q has a tiny sensor and the other one is too big and very ugly.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
"you have to open up, focus, stop down, shoot which isnt good either"

It isn't that bad. You do get used to it. Most lenses I use on DSLR are M42, not Pentax K, so I have to do this nearly all the time. It works out. After a while its second nature. I benefit more from the support of AV exposure mode with manual aperture; on Pentax bodies old K-mount lenses (other than the -A types) can only meter properly in M mode.

And plenty of my lenses are preset anyway, so big whoop.

I have tried a Nex5; it really is a pain with even a handheld 135mm.
Since I'm nearly always scrambling around in 3 dimensions with at least a 200mm, that whole family of bodies is right out. Tripods aren't going to follow me up a tree or under a bush.

But its a pretty personal matter.

"open, focus, stopdown, shoot" repeat is OK for static subjects shot in a slow manner but if your trying to do any action or work a little quicker it gets pretty tedious pretty fast which is why autoaperture was developed in the 1950's. I sometimes shoot with my M42 lenses on my K mount DSLR via adapter and use this method so I know how it goes....


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
hifisapi wrote:
IF mirrorless was so good both Canon and Nikon would be onboard by now but there not.



LOL, both Nikon and Canon have mirrorless cameras. So are Pentax, but neither of their models is all that great really, the Q has a tiny sensor and the other one is too big and very ugly.

I dont count the q, its a toy with its mini sensor, Canon has an aps-cc mirrorless interchangable lens camera? What model is that?


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
hifisapi wrote:
IF mirrorless was so good both Canon and Nikon would be onboard by now but there not.



LOL, both Nikon and Canon have mirrorless cameras. So are Pentax, but neither of their models is all that great really, the Q has a tiny sensor and the other one is too big and very ugly.

nikon has the v1 but its not aps c so I dont count it.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can certainly do action with manual or preset aperture. My favorite "action" tele is an ancient preset Schneider Tele Xenar 360/5.5. Thats what I use for airshows.

Street shooting or even party pictures are best done with a wide angle with guesstimated scale focus. Preset or manual aperture is fine. There is no time to focus.

Auto aperture helps, definitely. But just how much one values it is purely personal. In my case its most valuable, by far, for closeup or macro in the field.
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