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HELP PLEASE - what's caused this?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: HELP PLEASE - what's caused this? Reply with quote
This is my first film through my recent EBay purchase Agfa Billy.

Before use I had cleaned the lens front and back with spectacle lens cleaner on a cotton bud. You can see clearly blemishes (which appear on the negs) and appear to follow a pattern.

I've tried to get a photo of the lens which isn't fungussy but does need a clean so if these are the result of taking photos with the possibility of direct sunlight catching the lens and being refracted by mucky marks the question arises whether the lens of this camera can be dismantled, cleaned and reassembled.





PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is there some pattern on the photos?

Looks like light leak but the marks are usually same place and size. Do you remember the exposure times of each photo, if it is a shutter problem?

edit: sorry, must remember to read these posts before answering. Embarassed

I mean that does the pattern connect somehow to exposure time?

One of the shutter blades could be stuck or lazy.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kansalliskala wrote:
Is there some pattern on the photos?

Looks like light leak but the marks are usually same place and size. Do you remember the exposure times of each photo, if it is a shutter problem?

edit: sorry, must remember to read these posts before answering. Embarassed

I mean that does the pattern connect somehow to exposure time?

One of the shutter blades could be stuck or lazy.


Well, I've played with it for 30 minutes on all shutter speeds and apertures including bulb and timer and cannot detect a lazy shutter blade. I'm just now going to stand in a dark room with a torch up the bellows... nope, not a glimmer through the bellows.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
When I've had bad pictures from a film I find it useful to have a quick 'play' in my favorite editing software - not so much as to try and save the images, but to isolate the cause of the failure.
I start with digitizing at a high resolution on the scanner, then converting to black and white, then I take out a colour at a time, and trying different contrast settings and anything I can think of. That way I can at least see if the lens is sharp and the camera is ( more likely to be ) at fault.
It's not the whole answer, but it certainly helps in understanding the process of the failure.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you check that the bellows are light tight? That would be the first suspicion. A lazy shutter leaf gives a different look. Don't ask me why I know these things Laughing


PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What's the neg look like? Is there a dark patch in each frame or is it continuous along the film going across frame gaps?


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does not look like a lens problem.
A tiny hole in the bellows would explain that.
Take some "blanks" and see if these stains are also on unexposed film!

Another idead might be that something went wrong during the development (film sticked with something together?).

Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:16 am; edited 4 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like the backing paper was scrunched up somehow ? Or the pressure plate wasn't holding the neg against the frame ? Or something shiny between the lens and neg ? To me it looks more film based than lens based ?


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
When I've had bad pictures from a film I find it useful to have a quick 'play' in my favorite editing software - not so much as to try and save the images, but to isolate the cause of the failure.
I start with digitizing at a high resolution on the scanner, then converting to black and white, then I take out a colour at a time, and trying different contrast settings and anything I can think of. That way I can at least see if the lens is sharp and the camera is ( more likely to be ) at fault.
It's not the whole answer, but it certainly helps in understanding the process of the failure.


Lloydy, thank you for this reply which took more than a minute to type. Sadly I am scannerless. Crying or Very sad


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nesster wrote:
Did you check that the bellows are light tight? That would be the first suspicion. A lazy shutter leaf gives a different look. Don't ask me why I know these things Laughing


Yes, blacked-out room, camera, torch. Zero light leak through the bellows.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
What's the neg look like? Is there a dark patch in each frame or is it continuous along the film going across frame gaps?


There are corresponding "splashes" of dark within the frames rather than a continuous line. Looking at the negs in sequence, the first two images (top row 3rd & 4th from left respectively) have got the least. I had the shop where I have my developing done check the images and as much as the old guy could say was that it was on the negs. In fairness to him he's been a pro photographer longer than I've been on this earth and his business does lots of 120 film developing.

I'm a bit cavlier about where I stand relative to the sun: is there any way this might just be flare/glare?


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
Does not look like a lens problem.
A tiny hole in the bellows would explain that.
Take some "blanks" and see if these stains are also on unexposed film!

Another idead might be that something went wrong during the development (film sticked with something together?).


There isn't a hole in the bellows which will permit strong torchlight through but I'll try again for you.

If a development process issue, wouldn't it show as a scuff on the surface of the neg?


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
erkie wrote:
Looks like the backing paper was scrunched up somehow ? Or the pressure plate wasn't holding the neg against the frame ? Or something shiny between the lens and neg ? To me it looks more film based than lens based ?


Well, I'd surely have heard/felt the backing paper binding? I think I'm looking at putting another film through now. I ought to change only one thing at a time but I will ensure lens surfaces are clean, will feel carefully for any resistance, will try to avoid getting the sun directly onto the lens and kinda hope for the best.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you test the shutter functioning visually with a dark room and a torch?


PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kansalliskala wrote:
Did you test the shutter functioning visually with a dark room and a torch?


So far in a well-lit room but I'll try it the other way tomorrow, I'm off to bed now.

Update following darkened room and torch test:

all functions properly. I can't vouch for exact shutter speeds but nothing drags, hangs or sticks. Open... closed... open... closed... all apertures, all shutter speeds.

Last edited by tikkathree on Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
When I get a 'new' camera I wait for a grey day and just go to the local churchyard behind our house and blast a roll of film through. I shoot some hand held but most on a tripod, and set the camera to view the gravestones going away from me, that way I can go through the apertures and see the DoF altering and it runs through the speeds. Choosing a constant view means you can base your judgement on a set of meaningful images. Gravestones are good, they don't move or wave about in the wind.
Given the problems you have with this camera I would certainly set up a test situation something like this. For the last few shots get a powerful torch and go around the bellows with the light, with the shutter on Bulb and the lens cap on.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
Gravestones are good, they don't move or wave about in the wind.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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