View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: HELP PLEASE - what's caused this? |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
This is my first film through my recent EBay purchase Agfa Billy.
Before use I had cleaned the lens front and back with spectacle lens cleaner on a cotton bud. You can see clearly blemishes (which appear on the negs) and appear to follow a pattern.
I've tried to get a photo of the lens which isn't fungussy but does need a clean so if these are the result of taking photos with the possibility of direct sunlight catching the lens and being refracted by mucky marks the question arises whether the lens of this camera can be dismantled, cleaned and reassembled.
_________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 5038 Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
|
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
kansalliskala wrote:
Is there some pattern on the photos?
Looks like light leak but the marks are usually same place and size. Do you remember the exposure times of each photo, if it is a shutter problem?
edit: sorry, must remember to read these posts before answering.
I mean that does the pattern connect somehow to exposure time?
One of the shutter blades could be stuck or lazy. _________________ MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
AF: Canon, Tokina, Sigma Video: JVC GZ-MG275E |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
kansalliskala wrote: |
Is there some pattern on the photos?
Looks like light leak but the marks are usually same place and size. Do you remember the exposure times of each photo, if it is a shutter problem?
edit: sorry, must remember to read these posts before answering.
I mean that does the pattern connect somehow to exposure time?
One of the shutter blades could be stuck or lazy. |
Well, I've played with it for 30 minutes on all shutter speeds and apertures including bulb and timer and cannot detect a lazy shutter blade. I'm just now going to stand in a dark room with a torch up the bellows... nope, not a glimmer through the bellows. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7788 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
|
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lloydy wrote:
When I've had bad pictures from a film I find it useful to have a quick 'play' in my favorite editing software - not so much as to try and save the images, but to isolate the cause of the failure.
I start with digitizing at a high resolution on the scanner, then converting to black and white, then I take out a colour at a time, and trying different contrast settings and anything I can think of. That way I can at least see if the lens is sharp and the camera is ( more likely to be ) at fault.
It's not the whole answer, but it certainly helps in understanding the process of the failure. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
|
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nesster wrote:
Did you check that the bellows are light tight? That would be the first suspicion. A lazy shutter leaf gives a different look. Don't ask me why I know these things _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5017 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
|
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Excalibur wrote:
What's the neg look like? Is there a dark patch in each frame or is it continuous along the film going across frame gaps? _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
|
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
ForenSeil wrote:
Does not look like a lens problem.
A tiny hole in the bellows would explain that.
Take some "blanks" and see if these stains are also on unexposed film!
Another idead might be that something went wrong during the development (film sticked with something together?). _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language)
Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:16 am; edited 4 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
erkie
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 308 Location: Missouri
|
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
erkie wrote:
Looks like the backing paper was scrunched up somehow ? Or the pressure plate wasn't holding the neg against the frame ? Or something shiny between the lens and neg ? To me it looks more film based than lens based ? _________________
I shoot film and meter with digital
Asahi H3v, Praktica FX3, Retina IIa, Spotmatic sp1000, Fujica V2, Yashica lynx5000, Pentax Sf1, Minolta SRT102, Minolta7000i, Pentax MX, Pentax ME, Pentax Kx
lensesM42- Isco Gottingen Westanar 50/2.8, Isco Gottingen Westron 35/2.8, Rikenon 35/2.8, Spiratone Tc 105/2.5, Spiratone Tc 200/4.5, Sankyo Kohki Komura 300/5, Sankyo Kohki Komura 135/3.5, Auto Tak 35/3.5, Super Tak 150/4, S-M-C Tak 50/1.4, S-M-C Tak 28/3.5, SMC Tak 55/2, Mamya Sekor 55/1.8
K- mount- Helios 44-K-4, Jc penny 28/2.8, Da 18-55, Da 55-300, Pentax F 35-70, SMCP M 50/1.4, SMCP M 50/1.7
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
Lloydy wrote: |
When I've had bad pictures from a film I find it useful to have a quick 'play' in my favorite editing software - not so much as to try and save the images, but to isolate the cause of the failure.
I start with digitizing at a high resolution on the scanner, then converting to black and white, then I take out a colour at a time, and trying different contrast settings and anything I can think of. That way I can at least see if the lens is sharp and the camera is ( more likely to be ) at fault.
It's not the whole answer, but it certainly helps in understanding the process of the failure. |
Lloydy, thank you for this reply which took more than a minute to type. Sadly I am scannerless. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
Nesster wrote: |
Did you check that the bellows are light tight? That would be the first suspicion. A lazy shutter leaf gives a different look. Don't ask me why I know these things |
Yes, blacked-out room, camera, torch. Zero light leak through the bellows. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
Excalibur wrote: |
What's the neg look like? Is there a dark patch in each frame or is it continuous along the film going across frame gaps? |
There are corresponding "splashes" of dark within the frames rather than a continuous line. Looking at the negs in sequence, the first two images (top row 3rd & 4th from left respectively) have got the least. I had the shop where I have my developing done check the images and as much as the old guy could say was that it was on the negs. In fairness to him he's been a pro photographer longer than I've been on this earth and his business does lots of 120 film developing.
I'm a bit cavlier about where I stand relative to the sun: is there any way this might just be flare/glare? _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
Does not look like a lens problem.
A tiny hole in the bellows would explain that.
Take some "blanks" and see if these stains are also on unexposed film!
Another idead might be that something went wrong during the development (film sticked with something together?). |
There isn't a hole in the bellows which will permit strong torchlight through but I'll try again for you.
If a development process issue, wouldn't it show as a scuff on the surface of the neg? _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
erkie wrote: |
Looks like the backing paper was scrunched up somehow ? Or the pressure plate wasn't holding the neg against the frame ? Or something shiny between the lens and neg ? To me it looks more film based than lens based ? |
Well, I'd surely have heard/felt the backing paper binding? I think I'm looking at putting another film through now. I ought to change only one thing at a time but I will ensure lens surfaces are clean, will feel carefully for any resistance, will try to avoid getting the sun directly onto the lens and kinda hope for the best. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 5038 Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
|
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kansalliskala wrote:
Did you test the shutter functioning visually with a dark room and a torch? _________________ MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
AF: Canon, Tokina, Sigma Video: JVC GZ-MG275E |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
|
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tikkathree wrote:
kansalliskala wrote: |
Did you test the shutter functioning visually with a dark room and a torch? |
So far in a well-lit room but I'll try it the other way tomorrow, I'm off to bed now.
Update following darkened room and torch test:
all functions properly. I can't vouch for exact shutter speeds but nothing drags, hangs or sticks. Open... closed... open... closed... all apertures, all shutter speeds. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit
Last edited by tikkathree on Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7788 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
|
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lloydy wrote:
When I get a 'new' camera I wait for a grey day and just go to the local churchyard behind our house and blast a roll of film through. I shoot some hand held but most on a tripod, and set the camera to view the gravestones going away from me, that way I can go through the apertures and see the DoF altering and it runs through the speeds. Choosing a constant view means you can base your judgement on a set of meaningful images. Gravestones are good, they don't move or wave about in the wind.
Given the problems you have with this camera I would certainly set up a test situation something like this. For the last few shots get a powerful torch and go around the bellows with the light, with the shutter on Bulb and the lens cap on. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4744 Location: Cheshire, England
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
philslizzy wrote:
Lloydy wrote: |
Gravestones are good, they don't move or wave about in the wind.
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|