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Washed out background with fast lenses
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:14 am    Post subject: Washed out background with fast lenses Reply with quote
I've noticed many times that when photographing with fast lenses wide open you often get the the subject well exposed and contrasty but the background tends to be washed out, nearly high key. Anyone else seeing this. Why is it?

I don't have a good example right now but I will see what I can find.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I havent found that to be the case, sometimes the background is dark.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Washed out background with fast lenses Reply with quote
Pontus wrote:
I've noticed many times that when photographing with fast lenses wide open you often get the the subject well exposed and contrasty but the background tends to be washed out, nearly high key. Anyone else seeing this. Why is it?

I don't have a good example right now but I will see what I can find.

I guess it's depending which metering are you using on your camera!...With center or spot metering (light mesuring on the subject) is the chance that your background will be overexposed, at least that's my experience!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's an example. Look at the 2nd photo: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-1-2-55mm-aspherical-venezia-mask-portraits-t54376,highlight,%2Bcanon+%2Baspherical.html

Please note, I absolutely love these pictures, bringing them up in this thread is not to be seen as negative critique.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Washed out background with fast lenses Reply with quote
pich900 wrote:
Pontus wrote:
I've noticed many times that when photographing with fast lenses wide open you often get the the subject well exposed and contrasty but the background tends to be washed out, nearly high key. Anyone else seeing this. Why is it?

I don't have a good example right now but I will see what I can find.

I guess it's depending which metering are you using on your camera!...With center or spot metering (light mesuring on the subject) is the chance that your background will be overexposed, at least that's my experience!

+1


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It has nothing to do with the speed of the lens. Its just dependant on the scene and metering.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Washed out background with fast lenses Reply with quote
pich900 wrote:
Pontus wrote:
I've noticed many times that when photographing with fast lenses wide open you often get the the subject well exposed and contrasty but the background tends to be washed out, nearly high key. Anyone else seeing this. Why is it?

I don't have a good example right now but I will see what I can find.

I guess it's depending which metering are you using on your camera!...With center or spot metering (light mesuring on the subject) is the chance that your background will be overexposed, at least that's my experience!


Depending what do you "put" at the spot of the meter.

If you spot on the clear image (like with the slides) you will metering for the high lights, so the background never be overexposed.

When you do that and the foreground is dark, so move the spot untill you find the exposure that you like.

It's easy.

You never had that adventage with film. In the old times, you have to use polaroid back to "preview" the image.

Today the LCD let us almost All. Wink


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
On that particular shot, I think the subject was in shadow, or muted light, while the buildings behind were in sunlight. The shot is perfectly exposed for the subject's face. On other shots I guess blurred highlights spread and merge, which would give a washed out look too.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jjphoto wrote:
It has nothing to do with the speed of the lens. Its just dependant on the scene and metering.


Perhaps. But it is my feeling that with a very large aperture there is a lot of background blur and bokeh highlights. These bokeh highlights seem to suck in light which gives an impression of a lighter background. I don't know, I guess it's my imagination again Smile


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
And when the well expose background needs the subject in dark shadows, so reduce the ratio between the high lights and the loiw lights.

Let me say in other words, change the background, choose any other without high lights.

Or let the high light stay there, but.......


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
skida wrote:
On other shots I guess blurred highlights spread and merge, which would give a washed out look too.


Oh, what a great way to put it.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pontus wrote:
jjphoto wrote:
It has nothing to do with the speed of the lens. Its just dependant on the scene and metering.


Perhaps. But it is my feeling that with a very large aperture there is a lot of background blur and bokeh highlights. These bokeh highlights seem to suck in light which gives an impression of a lighter background. I don't know, I guess it's my imagination again Smile

The biggest problem with fast lenses is simply that they often vignette more than slow lenses so the cntral part of the frame is often quite a lot brighter then the edges.

Last edited by jjphoto on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pontus wrote:
Here's an example. Look at the 2nd photo: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-1-2-55mm-aspherical-venezia-mask-portraits-t54376,highlight,%2Bcanon+%2Baspherical.html

Please note, I absolutely love these pictures, bringing them up in this thread is not to be seen as negative critique.


Ok, as the photographer of the images you refer to, i will give some explanations..

Yes.. first it has to do with the kind of metering.. i activated the spot measurement on the 5D MKII. The light conditions were poor during the venezian carnival session and so i decided to take the very fast lens wide open.

As you can see in those pictures, most of the details are dark.. and i need to have correct metering for the skins of the models..

If you measure a dark surface, the spotmeter trys to bring the exposure to the average value of 18% grey.. no mater if you measure dark details or white surfaces.. he will try to give you the average 18% value..

And in the shown and refered images, there are lots of dark details..

With this very fast lens all details in the background would completely wash out if you should try to shot with that spotmetering.. so you have to do a little compromise..

In addition to that, this models are "amateurs".. so the walk very fast.. and with a fast and manual lens, you have to concentrate yourself on the focuswork.. there are lots pihotpgraphers around you and the models.. so you have not time to switch on your camera or do some other work ... thats why i decided to do the following before i start shooting:

I measured my own hands in that situationen.. in german we call this "Ersatzmessung".. lets take the words equivalent measurement and shot in fully M-Mode. First make a measurement, holding the measurd hand of yourself in shadow position and after that measure the reflection of the sky on your hand...

This was the ideal way for quick action photography with a manual lens, because the diffus light condition was on every place, the models walk around.. no shadow.. nothing.

So this was a weighted measurment for giving me the possibility to concentrate myself on the focuswork and have perfect reflektion of the skin surface..

Because of this kind of metering, the light details in the background must be overexposed.. and this has nothing to do with how fast the lens is.. its indeed metering.. and in addition to that the very, very short DOF of a 1.2/55mm lens.

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Henry for your detailed explanation, it's appreciated! One thing though, what exactly do you mean by your statement "and in addition to that the very, very short DOF of a 1.2/55mm lens".

I was asking if fast lenses under some conditions render the background brighter than slower lenses, and what you wrote gives me the impression that there is something to it because of the shallow DOF.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pontus wrote:
.....

I was asking if fast lenses under some conditions render the background brighter than slower lenses, and what you wrote gives me the impression that there is something to it because of the shallow DOF.


IMHO they gives greater "circle of confusion" so every reflecting highlight seemed to be brighter.. compaired with a slower lens.. maybe thats what you mean and ask?

But thats a normal effect of a 1.2/5x lens..

Look, this was taken with a Porst 1.2/55mm lens



If you would close the lens aperture to lets say f2 or 2.8... you would have smaller circle of confusion in the image backgraound and lot more details.. thats what i meant with the DOF remark.

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is exactly what I mean. So maybe I haven't been imagining things after all Smile
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