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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: I need a lens for a Leica M3 |
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IANUS wrote:
As said in the topic description I do need a M-mount lens for a Leica M3.
The camera has framelines for 50mm, 90mm and 135mm. I allready have a Screwmount Bessa with 4 VC lenses (15mm, 25mm, 35mm and 75mm). I have one adapter M39-M as well. Unfortunately I don't have the right framelines on the M3.
Is someone using a 75mm lens on the M3? Which framelines do you use - 75mm or 50mm?
Second question. I am about to add a 50mm lens but which one to get. I allready tried some russian 50mm lenses with my Bessa and found build quality mediocre. I know that some show great results with those lenses but I will exclude them from my search.
Which lenses can you recommend. I haven't settled about the price I want to spend but a new Summicron or Summilux is definitely out of my range.
I suppose sharpness isn't an issue with M-lenses from the last 50years and I won't use the M3 on a tripod for landscape shots. I am looking more for a pleasing Bokeh and flare resistance.
It seems that the VC 50mm lenses are quiete rare but I spotted a 2/50 Heliar any recommendation for this lens. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
If you want to get a great performer and still do not want to spend too much money, try to find an older version of a Leica Summicron-M 2/50.
Another idea would be a Voigtländer Color Skopar 2.5/50 if that is fast enough for you. Don't worry if you only find screwmount ones. The adapters work well.
I use a collapsible Summitar 2/5cm on my M8. Fantastic little lens. But the collapsibles ones are not everybody's taste. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
Are u using it with B/W or color or slide film?
I have an collapsible Summicron 50/2 on my M3 - it's very good (much better than any Russian M39 lens I tried so far, It's even better than the 50/1.1 Nokton @F2 and has the famous "Leica Glow") but not as good as most modern 50mm RF-lenses. You can get it between 400-500€
Other 50mm lenses which are better and not insanly expensive are:
Carl Zeiss ZM Planar 50/2 T* (~480-550€ used, if you find one)
Carl Zeiss ZM Sonnar 50/1.5 T* (hard to find a used one)
(Cosina) Voigtländer Nokton 50/1.5 (modern one, also hard to find a used one but you might get it below 400€ used)
The optically best M39 USSR lenses are Industar-50 and Industar-22 as far as I know bye the way - if you're looking for something as snack until you find a really good one. _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
Thanks for your comments.
When I look in the bay you find several Summicron and Elmar lenses. All other seem to be really rare.
Is there a reference where I can see the differences between the Summicron lenses. How many Versions are out there? |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
Are u using it with B/W or color or slide film?
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In most cases I do use b/w. Either Rollei Superpan as b/w-slide or Tmax or Kodak BW400CN.
Btw. filter thread of 39mm would be nice since I do have a complete Rodenstock filter Set in this size. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
The problem (and my problem as well ) is that at the moment M-lenses are very expensive.
I would love to add a 75mm M-mount lens to my set, but those are way out of reach for my budget left-overs.
And although I love that classic character of my Summitar, I would like to have a modern 50mm as well.
But again, too expensive if I really want to see an improvement. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
Just put of curiosity, since I know nothing about Leica, and surely won't be able to find out myself, how do you rate Japanese lenses such as minolta m rokkors or komuras in LTM? Would it make any sense using them? _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
IANUS wrote: |
Either Rollei Superpan as b/w-slide |
How do you develop Superpan as a slide? I suppose that chemicals for colour slides will not be appropriate.
And I don't think that Agfa ever released the chems for Scala outside of pro labs. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
Aanything wrote: |
Just put of curiosity, since I know nothing about Leica, and surely won't be able to find out myself, how do you rate Japanese lenses such as minolta m rokkors or komuras in LTM? Would it make any sense using them? |
Some are very good but most are only Sonnar copies, similar to Jupiter-8 etc.
But Canon 50/1.4 LTM and 35/2 LTM are known to be very good for example, even for modern standards
IANUS wrote: |
Thanks for your comments.
When I look in the bay you find several Summicron and Elmar lenses. All other seem to be really rare.
Is there a reference where I can see the differences between the Summicron lenses. How many Versions are out there? |
There many versions. The first collapsible from 1953-56 is "worst" (minor glow, sharp but not very sharp, low to medium overall contrast), than was one with much more contrast and sharpness from 56 to 67, another slightly improved one from 67 to 79 and the design from 1979 to now is practically unchanged (except the insanly expensive Apo-Summicron 50/2)
You can identify by serial number.
http://www.forloren.dk/lbf/leica_lens_serial.htm
Be careful not to get an Summicron with R-Mount
The worst/earliest Summicron is still better than 50/2 Sonnar/Jupiter-8 (more contrast, better colors, lower distortion, lower vignetting, better wide open performance and most important no focus shift!) _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
Orio wrote: |
IANUS wrote: |
Either Rollei Superpan as b/w-slide |
How do you develop Superpan as a slide? I suppose that chemicals for colour slides will not be appropriate.
And I don't think that Agfa ever released the chems for Scala outside of pro labs. |
I don't develope the b/w slides at home. I send them in a lab which does the scala process. As far as I know there are 3 labs in Germany who do the Scala process.
They also develope the Agfa Copex Rapid and Rollei Retro films as b/w slides. |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
There many versions. The first collapsible from 1953-56 is "worst" (minor glow, sharp but not very sharp, low to medium overall contrast), than was one with much more contrast and sharpness from 56 to 67, another slightly improved one from 67 to 79 and the design from 1979 to now is practically unchanged (except the insanly expensive Apo-Summicron 50/2)
You can identify by serial number.
http://www.forloren.dk/lbf/leica_lens_serial.htm
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Thanks for the link. It will help to identify the age.
I have seen a Nah-Summicron with goggles. Is this a special version of one of the above mentioned? |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:33 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
For reference, this is what a 1966 Industar-50 can do on a Zorki 6 loaded with Fujicolor 200, supermarket development, scanned at 3200dpi on a Plustek 8200i.
I think this is good enough until you can find something more modern at a good price.
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 2167 Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
Russian 50mm lenses don't always couple correctly on Leica bodies. I have a 50mm f2 and a 52mm f2.8 and neither is good at distances under 3 metres, the focusing is most certainly not right. However, the f2 does indeed produce sharp images on my Lumix G1, although the f2.8 Industar seems to struggle . . .
Ianus mentioned using a 75mm on his M3 - a bit tricky, but I think the 90mm frame is the one to use. The 50mm frame will show far too much. Just be sure to buy the appropriate screw-to-bayonet adapter. I've tried a Voigtlander one (cost about £25 secondhand) and also the cheapest Chinese one I could find on eBay (about £4 including postage from China to UK). Both let my 75mm Voigtlander lens couple perfectly on my M2 and M8, but the Voigtlander one is a bit smoother to fit on the Leica bodies.
There are now no reasonably priced "dependably good" Leica screw or bayonet 50s, largely because the ever rising price of new Leica ones and the upswing in demand has dragged used prices up. Today, a used 50mm f1.5 Summarit in excellent condition at £329 seems almost cheap (I can tell you where to find it if you want!). On the other hand, there are no bad Leitz lenses, so maybe that Summarit IS cheap . . . I have a chrome 50mm rigid Summicron from the early 1960s (the 7-element one) which is a magnificent lens. The 'close focus' version with the add-on viewfinder is exactly the same optically and can now sometimes be bought for the same price as the 'regular' version because you can't use it on the M8 and M9.
If you want to take photos rather than indulge in nostalgia, I'd agree with LucisPictor and suggest a Voigtlander 50mm f2.5. You already know the Voigtlander lens range is good. The Heliar seems to be an intriguing lens from what I've read, but they seem to be thin on the ground. The Canon 50mm f1.4 is also a splendid optic (wish I'd kept mine) but prices are climbing. the Canon 50mm f1.8 may be the nearest thing to a bargain, if you can find one in clean condition. Although it looks out of proportion on an M3, being such a small lens _________________ Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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sonyrokkor
Joined: 24 Sep 2012 Posts: 222 Location: Perù, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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sonyrokkor wrote:
Used Summiluxes should be a nice option. The old 1,4/35 used prefocus at F/5,6 is a great lens. And a good 1,4/75 well used is very good too. Second option for the tele, the elmarit 2,8/90 (one of the cheapest lenses in Leica M mount and very good one).
In the 50 mm range, the old summicron with 7 elements is good.
If you look for a tele a bit large, the 4/135 elmar is another good lens.
If the littleness is your business, the old elmar 4/90 collapsible should be your goal. |
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Hari
Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Posts: 1790
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hari wrote:
i have some nice old lenses and modern lenses in LTM and M mount but the collapsible summitar is one of my personal fav's
I'm not too good with long speeches in technical theory so here's a recent picture taken with the collapsible summitar 50 f2
minimal post processing done in Aperture (or maybe LightRoom)
_________________
Analogue Rangefinders: Leica M5, Leica M6 Titanium classic 0.72, Leica M7 0.58, Leica M7 0.85
Digital Rangefinder: Leica M9, Leica Monochrom, Leica M240
SLR: Leica R3 electronic, Canon AE1P
DSLR: Canon 5D MK2
M mount Lenses: Super-Wide Heliar 15/f4.5 ASPH. + Leica 24/f3.8 ASPH + Leica 28/f2 ASPH. + Leica 35/f1.4 ASPH. FLE + Leica Noctilux 50/f0.95 + Leica Noctilux 50/f1 + Canon 50/f1.2 LTM + Leica 50/f1.4 ASPH. + Leica 50/f1.5 + Zeiss ZM Sonnar 50/f1.5 + Leica APO Summicron 50/f2 + Leica Summitar 50/f2 + Leica Rigid Summicron 50/f2 + Zeiss ZM Planar 50/f2 + Leica 50/f2.8 E39 + Leica 75/f1.4 + Leica APO 75/f2 ASPH. + Voigtlander 75/f2.5 + Leica Summarex 85/f1.5 + Leica APO 90/f2 ASPH. + Leica 90/f2 E55 + Leica 90/f2.8 + Leica APO 135/f3.4
Leica R mount Lenses: Leica-R 60/2.8 E55 + Leica-R 80/1.4 E67 + Leica-R 180/4
EF mount Lenses: Canon 50/1.8 II
M42 mount Lenses: Too many
My pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dementedjesus/ |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
Thanks for your further comments.
I just found a Planar ZM 2/50 for a very reasonable price so I think this lens will be the one. Has someone used this lens here. I read some test and all say it is sharp and there is not much to complain about.
@Hari
Nice shot. How is the condition of your summitar. Some time ago I had either a summar or summitar in my hands (attached to a Leica III) and the lens had a lot of little scratches on the front element and also some dust within. From what I have read it is hard to find a good copy nowadays. |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
IANUS wrote: |
Thanks for your further comments.
I just found a Planar ZM 2/50 for a very reasonable price so I think this lens will be the one. Has someone used this lens here. I read some test and all say it is sharp and there is not much to complain about.
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Congrats!
The lens is known to be very good; high resolution, high microncontrat, low distortion, low vignetting, low CA, decent bokeh, very sharp in center already wide open.
What's reasonable price for you? The lens sells for around 700€ new _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
Congrats!
The lens is known to be very good; high resolution, high microncontrat, low distortion, low vignetting, low CA, decent bokeh, very sharp in center already wide open.
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That sounds very promising. I have read some test and got very positive impression.
Quote: |
What's reasonable price for you? The lens sells for around 700€ new |
Reasonable in my case was 450€ for the lens in LN condition with papers and original packing.
When I checked the prices for M-lenses I found a lot of Summicron and Elmar lenses. Voigtländer and Zeiss was really rare.
A good copy of the 2.8/50 Elmar (older version) is something between 200-300€. I found two offers of the Nah-Summicron for 500€. Newer Summicron lenses are even more expensive depending on age and condition.
A 50 year old lens might be as good as a new one but I am more happy with the new for about the same price.[/quote] |
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