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Victor Nguyen
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 241
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 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject: Pentacon 135 f 2.8 "bokeh monster " is soft? |
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Victor Nguyen wrote:
I been shooting with the pentacon 15 bladed 135. Is it me or is it kinda soft?
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Nikkor 24mm f2.8 ai, Rokinon/Samyang 35mm f 1.4, Nikkor 55 f2.8 micro ais, Rokinon/Samyang 85mm f 1.4, Pentacon 135 "bokeh monster" f 2.8, Contax Zeiss 180 f 2.8 |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
wide open sharp enough I say rather this than soft, less sharp than Sonnar and way sharper than low quality soft lenses.
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Items on sale on Ebay
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
the lens has many blades, so step down a bit still not give hexagon bokeh.
If you need wide open to shoot video, that may differ.
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fatdeeman
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 780
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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fatdeeman wrote:
I think the sharpness can be quite variable from copy to copy, I have a really beat up one with a chip in the rear element and it's still pretty sharp wide open but I also had a pristine one for a brief period but it wasn't as sharp.
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DSLR: Canon EOS 60D, Samsung GX-1S (Pentax *ist DS2)
Mirrorless: Panasonic DMC-G1, Sony NEX-5N
Compact: Canon PowerShot G3
Lenses:
Wide: Tokina RMC 28mm F/2.8, Tamron Adaptall 2 28mm F/2.5, Sun Optical 28mm F/2.5, Super paragon 28mm F/2.8, Sigma filtermatic 24mm F/2.8, Fujinon 35mm F/2.8, Sun Optical 35mm F/2.8
Standard: Industar 50-2, Helios 44-2, Helios 44M, Helios 44M-3, Pentax-M 50mm F/1.4, Pentax-M 50mm F/1.7, Pentax-M 50mm F/2, Ricoh 50mm F/1.7, Chinon 50mm F/1.7
Tele: Pentacon 135mm F/2.8, Pentacon 200mm F/3.5, Optomax 200mm f/3.5, Sun Optical 135mm F/3.5, Soligor 350mm F/5.6
Zoom: Tokina 28-70mm f/3.5-4.5 SZ-X270 SD, Sigma Zoom Pi 35-200mm F4-5.6, Sun Optical 28-80mm F/3.5-4.5, Sunagor 80-205mm F/3.8, Tokina RMC 80-200mm F/4, Vivitar 70-150mm F/3.8, Tamron 95-205mm F/6.3, Tamron Adaptall 28-200mm F/3.8-5.6 LD Aspherical, Tokina RMC 70-210mm F/3.5
Mirror: Falcon (Samyang) 800mm F/8, MTO-11CA 1000mm F/10, Tamron Adaptall 2 500mm F/8
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Well the similar Meyer is VG and only very slightly less sharp (stopped down) compared to some of my other lenses.
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Based on my personal experience, I would call it quite soft, yes. But as Attila says, it's sharp enough for what people typically uses it for (portraits).
There is a lot of offerings of cheap sharp lenses of 135mm focal lenght that one can use when sharpness is needed
(Jupiter-37AM 3.5/135, CZJ 4/135 and 3.5/135 are the first that rise to mind)
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| Orio wrote: |
Based on my personal experience, I would call it quite soft, yes. But as Attila says, it's sharp enough for what people typically uses it for (portraits).
There is a lot of offerings of cheap sharp lenses of 135mm focal lenght that one can use when sharpness is needed
(Jupiter-37AM 3.5/135, CZJ 4/135 and 3.5/135 are the first that rise to mind) |
+1
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:48 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I've had five copies, they do vary, I had one that was very sharp wide open, the others weren't as sharp until f4.
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Victor Nguyen
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Victor Nguyen wrote:
I was just comparing with my nikkor 24mm f 2.8 and I guess when compare to a lens that is extremely sharp you'll see it as soft. But I guess it's okay, I didn't buy it for sharpness, I bought it for it bokeh.
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Nikkor 24mm f2.8 ai, Rokinon/Samyang 35mm f 1.4, Nikkor 55 f2.8 micro ais, Rokinon/Samyang 85mm f 1.4, Pentacon 135 "bokeh monster" f 2.8, Contax Zeiss 180 f 2.8
Last edited by Victor Nguyen on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 3438
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
| Victor Nguyen wrote: |
| But I guess it's okay, I didn't buy it for sharpness, I bought it for it bokeh. |
I have one zebra Orestor, its a little bit less sharp then my Pentacon auto version (a very good one),
I didn't buy it for sharpness, I bought it for bokeh and because it looks so nice and I like the preset function  |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The 15-bladed ones are best used at f4 instead of f2.8, makes quite a difference in sharpness and contrast but the bokeh doesn't change.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| The 15-bladed ones are best used at f4 instead of f2.8, makes quite a difference in sharpness and contrast but the bokeh doesn't change. |
+1
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10960
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
I would say it is slightly unsharp wide open, but not 'soft', like other lenses are soft wide open. This lens, the transition from focal plane to out of focus areas is very smooth. Maybe I should say the lens is 'smooth' wide open; not harsh, not soft, but smooth.
I think it is very sharp wide open when focus is perfect. Getting perfect focus with this lens is not so easy my experience, on ff camera. I think on crop to focus would be more difficult because the viewfinder is so tiny.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Victor Nguyen
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Victor Nguyen wrote:
do you think one reason it's hard to focus with this lens is because the transition from in focus to out of focus is so smooth?
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Nikkor 24mm f2.8 ai, Rokinon/Samyang 35mm f 1.4, Nikkor 55 f2.8 micro ais, Rokinon/Samyang 85mm f 1.4, Pentacon 135 "bokeh monster" f 2.8, Contax Zeiss 180 f 2.8 |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3703
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
| visualopsins wrote: |
| I think it is very sharp wide open when focus is perfect. Getting perfect focus with this lens is not so easy my experience, on ff camera. I think on crop to focus would be more difficult because the viewfinder is so tiny. |
+1
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10960
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| Victor Nguyen wrote: |
| do you think one reason it's hard to focus with this lens is because the transition from in focus to out of focus is so smooth? |
I think it is true!
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☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 2726
Location: Kiel, Germany.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
+You don't know who had the lens before. Maybe the lens was opened by a non-professional guy for cleaning which caused slight decentering of the elements etc..
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I'm not a collector, I'm a tester 
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
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Victor Nguyen
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Victor Nguyen wrote:
I bought this lens from still22 which I heard was a good seller.
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Nikkor 24mm f2.8 ai, Rokinon/Samyang 35mm f 1.4, Nikkor 55 f2.8 micro ais, Rokinon/Samyang 85mm f 1.4, Pentacon 135 "bokeh monster" f 2.8, Contax Zeiss 180 f 2.8 |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6950
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
| Victor Nguyen wrote: |
| I bought this lens from still22 which I heard was a good seller. |
An expensive seller.
Try using tripod and liveview (if you have it) or focus bracketing. I've had 2 and whilst they are not really sharp wide open they are still quite good. Comparing it to a Nikkor wide angle is going to be difficult as the `Bokeh Monster' will have a much shallower DOF, so this may be why you think it's not as sharp.
Try the brick wall test and see how it performs.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| ForenSeil wrote: |
| +You don't know who had the lens before. Maybe the lens was opened by a non-professional guy for cleaning which caused slight decentering of the elements etc.. |
+1 that is possible even if good seller not test every lens by camera and not see it what you say.
perhaps lens is okay, just you do expect more publish some pictures after when you done with Martin advice.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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