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robau
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 19
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 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: Is this haze or is it just a fantasy? |
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robau wrote:
Hello there!
recently I sold via ebay a 2,8/35 Fujinon to Hongkong. Strange thing: my very first international sale, first time paypal,
also first time unsatisfied customer: claims there is haze and "seperation of inner elements", visible under "strong light"(seems to be a
slide projector). Well I never look through my lenses into a lightsource that could damage my eyes.
Bevore i sold it I took some test-pictures with this lens, and although nothing stellar, I couldn´t see anyhing obviosly strange. Inspecting the lens in normal bright light it appeared to be completely clear. What do you think? Mistake on my side? Or some damage occured during airmail (temperature, pressure...)? Or fraud?
Picture taken by customer "paddyyw". Can´t see "seperation", "haze" could be a badly cleaned front element?
#1
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That lens definitely needs cleaning.
Always examine lenses for sale closely with a light source, just sunlight isn't enough, an LED torch is fine, not gonna damage your eyes.
Can't tell from that picture what is wrong, could be fungus, could be haze, could be dirty, but definitely buyer is right, lens is in bad state. In the centre are many fine lines, that is either fungus or lots of scratches. Separation is not visible from this picture but could well be there.
Far Eastern buyers have an annoying habit of expecting 40 year old items to be like new, but in this case, the buyer is right, the lens is in bad shape and you should offer him a refund if he returns it, or come to some other agreement, but definitely you sold him a bad condition lens, sorry to say.
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 7448
Location: near High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Far Eastern buyers have an annoying habit of expecting 40 year old items to be like new |
It's probably more correct to say that Western sellers have an annoying habit of describing 40 year old items as being in excellent condition when they aren't.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| peterqd wrote: |
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Far Eastern buyers have an annoying habit of expecting 40 year old items to be like new |
It's probably more correct to say that Western sellers have an annoying habit of describing 40 year old items as being in excellent condition when they aren't. |
+1
Number one rule to me to light throw lens , examine with magnifier and say everything what I see. Buyer has no chance to examine it , I have to do it and inform buyer must as I can.
This lens has several issues, buyer had right. Dirt , haze visible, cleaning marks or fungus too, this is may not impact picture quality but highly impact price.
I had a few issue with buyers from 1000 sales, and I sold at least 50% to far east, they have expectation only to be fair. Certainly I met some bad buyers from far east, but 99% just nice one like from any country. In fact my biggest sale went to Thailand 3000 UKP value to a 0 feedback buyer and it was trouble free. I sold a well described rare item with lot of pictures , buyer didn't what he paid.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
At the center the fungus seem to be there. Outside the center should be grease or like it marks, perhaps bad cleaning process. Contrast lens killer?
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Helios 44-3
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Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
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Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
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Canon AV1, 1,8/50
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Etc.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| peterqd wrote: |
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Far Eastern buyers have an annoying habit of expecting 40 year old items to be like new |
It's probably more correct to say that Western sellers have an annoying habit of describing 40 year old items as being in excellent condition when they aren't. |
No, I've had the experience several times of unrealistic demands of Asian buyers despite thorough descriptions and including several high res pictures in the listing.
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stingOM
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 3168
Location: Ireland
Expire: 2012-12-27
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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stingOM wrote:
I will put down as inexperience as a seller. I am sure you had no bad intention. But you may not be as fussy as others.
It is a good idea to take loads of photos and show them in the sales thread.... |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| stingOM wrote: |
I will put down as inexperience as a seller. I am sure you had no bad intention. But you may not be as fussy as others.
It is a good idea to take loads of photos and show them in the sales thread.... |
+10
I have fallen into the same pit myself, hence I say to always check very carefully with led torch.
Lots of pics is also essential.
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stingOM
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
A bit over complicated Simon 
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
| peterqd wrote: |
It's probably more correct to say that Western sellers have an annoying habit of describing 40 year old items as being in excellent condition when they aren't. |
"Excellent" I can easily understand, because many of these 40 year young beauties are, in fact, in excellent condition. However, "mint" does get on my nerves.
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stingOM
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 3168
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
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stingOM wrote:
| Attila wrote: |
| A bit over complicated Simon |
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robau
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
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robau wrote:
thanks a lot for your comments! what made me wonder is the strange coincidence of 1st-time-paypal and first problem ever.
Until now I sold maybe 50 to 100 lenses and there never was a problem. With this lens perhaps the problem was that I left it in an unheated, at this time high humidity basement room between testing and selling, around two months. heres a picture taken with that lens, at 5,6.
Shows exactly the same resolution and contrast as my Hexanon 35:2,0. Wide open there is some normal aberration.
thanks to you I now know my customer is right anyway, from now on I´ll inspect my lenses through an enlarger!
I´m recently testing a bulk of lenses on my Nex 5n, got me all the adapters I need from big-is. Thanks for your recommendations! |
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robau
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
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robau wrote:
by the way, how do you clean your lenses if they are realy dirty and dusty? |
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SonicScot
Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 2697
Location: Scottish Highlands
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: |
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SonicScot wrote:
| fermy wrote: |
| peterqd wrote: |
It's probably more correct to say that Western sellers have an annoying habit of describing 40 year old items as being in excellent condition when they aren't. |
"Excellent" I can easily understand, because many of these 40 year young beauties are, in fact, in excellent condition. However, "mint" does get on my nerves. |
100% agree, really grinds my gears. 
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WolverineX
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 1693
Location: Zagreb , Croatia , Europe
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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WolverineX wrote:
| robau wrote: |
| by the way, how do you clean your lenses if they are realy dirty and dusty? |
when the lens i buy has a dirty glass , i use cleaning solution for my contact lenses to get dirt loose and the cloth for cleaning eye-glasses to wipe it down (or rice paper for cleaning the lenses)
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:54 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Keep in mind that condensation could be used to make that picture just to get a part refund.
Stick lens in freezer for 10 min, then take it out and breath on it ti fog it up, then take a picture.
I'm not saying that's what they did, just that it could be a possibility.
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
I found that look thru the lens using a card the middle of the lens from the place of the light come is better process for my eyes. And see with mote details inside the lens.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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robau
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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robau wrote:
| Lightshow wrote: |
Keep in mind that condensation could be used to make that picture just to get a part refund.
Stick lens in freezer for 10 min, then take it out and breath on it ti fog it up, then take a picture.
I'm not saying that's what they did, just that it could be a possibility. |
I thought so too. He wants a 40,- Euro refund, prize for the lens was 71,-. He also won a 135/3,5, which he told me was ok. Before the auction ended he asked me about shipping costs, which was 42,- Euro via DHL.
After he won the auction he asked wheter there was a cheaper option. Maybe he wants his shipping expense back.
He has 100% positive feedback with 27 quotes, as a buyer.
Do you think that kind of fog or haze, like visible in the picture, would be easily visible under normal light? Because it definitly wasn´t... |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
At this point you have no other option but to issue a refund. You yourself have no idea of the true condition of the lens. You should have examined the lens with a torch just prior to shipping. The buyer can be honest or he can be not, you will never know. However, he will win a Paypal claim with 100% certainty.
_________________
Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
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robau
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: |
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robau wrote:
even if I had an idea about the true condition of the lens I wouldn´t have a chance, right? |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
Yes, but then at least you would know what is going on and you could try offering a return.
_________________
Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| robau wrote: |
Do you think that kind of fog or haze, like visible in the picture, would be easily visible under normal light? Because it definitly wasn´t... |
I don't know about the haze, it can be hard to see, but the fungus or scratches in the middle would definitely be visible in normal light.
You have to give him the 40eu refund otherwise Paypal will give him it back anyways.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| fermy wrote: |
| At this point you have no other option but to issue a refund. You yourself have no idea of the true condition of the lens. You should have examined the lens with a torch just prior to shipping. The buyer can be honest or he can be not, you will never know. However, he will win a Paypal claim with 100% certainty. |
+1
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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robau
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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robau wrote:
thanks folks...
can someone please post a picture of an "excellent condition" old lens with strong light shining through? I´m rather unsure now and still have plenty lenses left for sale. Gonna buy me a good led torch, any recommendations? |
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