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Retro
Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 173 Location: Krautland
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8: statements / questions |
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Retro wrote:
Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8: statements / questions
I got this lens by chance for a few Euro at a flea market. It looked very used and the manual focus was a little bit damaged, so that it was hard-steering. By time I recognized its high picture quality and found, that it can match with my Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4, which is "the reference" in my M42-collection. So I bought as a connaisseur a second version, mint.
Recherches in the web confirmed my subjective view. But I found over and over two statements, which I will discuss here:
(1) It was stated, that the nostalgic Jena-Pancolar is nearly equal to the Zeiss/West-Planar nowadays. People bought an expensive new lens and were disappointed. The see only a slight progress in contrast.
Examples:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7qf7h/zeiss/pancolar.html
http://slrlensreview.com/content/view/398/94/
http://www.lupomesky.cz/czj_vs_cz/comp50.html
As a Pancolar owner, I hear this with delight, but a voice inside is warning: "dont´t believe what you are wishing to hear - stay critical!"
(2) It was stated, that the Jena-Pancolar would be good, but much cheaper japanease lenses like the Pentacon would do the same job.
Example:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=26118725
Here I have the suspection, that it might give differences between several Pancolar variations and/or variations in quality ("spread of standard factory models"). Especially I assume a difference between the old "zebra-design" and newer black designs (some have only an aperture range from 1.8 to 16 instead of 1.8 to 22).
What people didn´t value enough too is the tight focus minimum of the Pancolar with 35cm. This is a precious attribute, it shares with the Flectogon 35/2.4. All the other fast 50mm-lenses beginn with 45cm, usually 50cm, which is a valid con.
So I own a fine trias "Flektogon - Pancolar - Sonnar", which is fitting for many photographic tasks.
The only thing I have to bear, is the awful zebra-design of the Pancolar and a missing real wide-range prime-lens (here I use my Sigma 15-30/3.5-4.5 EX DG)... _________________ Cameras: Sigma SA300 - Sigma SD9 - Sigma SD10
Lenses: Sigma 15-30/3.5-4.5 - Vivitar 28/2.5 - Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 - Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2.0 (black) - Carl Zeiss Jena Triotar 135/4 - Sigma 28-70/2.8 - Sigma 70-300/4.0-5.6 - Vivitar 28-210/3.5-5.6
Equipment: Lightmeter Gossen Lunasix - Tripod Linhof/Schiansky Kugelkopf-Panorama-Stativ, Modell 161 - Rightangle Viewfinder Minolta VN - B+W Greygradientfilter BWG 501 - B+W Circular-Pol-Filter 52E - Photo Bag Crumpler Ben's Pizza XL
Portfolio: http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/434323/default.aspx?_c02_vws=1/pc/pc?mypics=434323
Last edited by Retro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Pancolar 50mm f1.8 one of the best 50mm lens. Zebra design is beautiful! _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Retro
Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 173 Location: Krautland
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Retro wrote:
Attila, I like you very much, but:
Quote: |
Zebra design is beautiful! |
Umph!!!
So what: "chacun a sont gout". _________________ Cameras: Sigma SA300 - Sigma SD9 - Sigma SD10
Lenses: Sigma 15-30/3.5-4.5 - Vivitar 28/2.5 - Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 - Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2.0 (black) - Carl Zeiss Jena Triotar 135/4 - Sigma 28-70/2.8 - Sigma 70-300/4.0-5.6 - Vivitar 28-210/3.5-5.6
Equipment: Lightmeter Gossen Lunasix - Tripod Linhof/Schiansky Kugelkopf-Panorama-Stativ, Modell 161 - Rightangle Viewfinder Minolta VN - B+W Greygradientfilter BWG 501 - B+W Circular-Pol-Filter 52E - Photo Bag Crumpler Ben's Pizza XL
Portfolio: http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/434323/default.aspx?_c02_vws=1/pc/pc?mypics=434323 |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
All people have different opinion from different things , this is all right.I love zebra and other old designs. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 8551 Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
Retro
I use that Sigma and find it to be a surprisingly good lens especially down at the wide end.
patrickh _________________ DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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Retro
Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 173 Location: Krautland
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Retro wrote:
Once again for Attila.
That´s the solution for me:
Every time I use the Zebra-Pancolar, I don´t bother about the design, but think about the fact, that I have it in common with you. That ennobles this glas...
to patrickh:
Yes I´m glad to have the Sigma 15-30.
Because of the multiplication factor of digital DSLR´s (with Sigma 1.7) you hardly can get a real WW.
But what about my questions or discussion points (for example: "is there a difference between the zebra or black versions?" - "how much is the Pancolar similar to the new Planar?" - "are there comparisons between the Pancolar and the Pentacon?"). _________________ Cameras: Sigma SA300 - Sigma SD9 - Sigma SD10
Lenses: Sigma 15-30/3.5-4.5 - Vivitar 28/2.5 - Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 - Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2.0 (black) - Carl Zeiss Jena Triotar 135/4 - Sigma 28-70/2.8 - Sigma 70-300/4.0-5.6 - Vivitar 28-210/3.5-5.6
Equipment: Lightmeter Gossen Lunasix - Tripod Linhof/Schiansky Kugelkopf-Panorama-Stativ, Modell 161 - Rightangle Viewfinder Minolta VN - B+W Greygradientfilter BWG 501 - B+W Circular-Pol-Filter 52E - Photo Bag Crumpler Ben's Pizza XL
Portfolio: http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/434323/default.aspx?_c02_vws=1/pc/pc?mypics=434323 |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Mmmm, Pancolar. My fave 50 by far. Mine is the electric MC version. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
You can find samples with all Pancolar in mflenses.com/gallery.I have no experience with Planar. In my opinion no difference between zebra and black one. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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VGR
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 160 Location: Belarus
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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VGR wrote:
Attila wrote: |
Pancolar 50mm f1.8 one of the best 50mm lens. Zebra design is beautiful! |
+1
All old optics Carl Zeiss very remarkable
PANCOLAR have Beautiful colour rendition, sharp on all range of diaphragms, beautiful a side and drawing! An objective soft yes the diaphragm 1.8-2 but should cover a little a hole and an objective becomes sharp and contrast...
I used black MC version:
some my portrets
OLYMPUS E330 + MC Carl Zeiss Jena DDR PANCOLAR auto 50/1.8
resize JPG
F/4
F/8
F/5.6
F/1.8
full size photo here:
http://oly43club.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=71 _________________ http://oly43club.ru/ |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I love your samples as you know already .... last two is my favorite. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Only two pictures load for me, so I will comment on those two:
- second picture, it is probably the sexiest picture I have seen in a long time!
- last picture, has fantastic bokeh!
- _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 8551 Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
VGR
Keep them coming - I agree with Orio on the boke of that last one - it's really like cream.
patrickh _________________ DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Like cream = Pancolar... _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4569 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
how does the Pancolar compare to the 50mm Takumars?
specially the K 1,4 and A 1,7?
optically
build quality wide?
thank you,
andreas _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
No idea I didn't have any of them. I had SMC Takumar 55mm f2 this lens has great bokeh, but I love Pancolar better.
I love any kind of Pancolar better than any other lens it's focal length.
50mm Pancolar the best 50mm lens to me
80mm also.
I have, had so many lenses in these focal lengths, but I can't find better lens than these. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
Last edited by Attila on Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
As build, SMC Takumar 50 is better, more solid for sure.
Image wise, I prefer the Pancolar. But I often prefer German-Russian lenses over Japanese lenses, so my opinion is a bit biased.
- _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4569 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
Orio wrote: |
As build, SMC Takumar 50 is better, more solid for sure.
Image wise, I prefer the Pancolar. But I often prefer German-Russian lenses over Japanese lenses, so my opinion is a bit biased.
- |
very interesting Orio,
I wonder what the reasons for your bias are, why you prefer german and russian lenses over japanese, even though the takumars are better build.
well, you say image wise... _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
kuuan wrote: |
very interesting Orio,
I wonder what the reasons for your bias are, why you prefer german and russian lenses over japanese, even though the takumars are better build.
well, you say image wise... |
I just like the images better. Generalizing is not always possible. There are some Japanese lenses that I really like. For instance, I like some of the Takumars and all the early Nikkors very much. Lenses like the Nikkor 3.5/135, 2.5/105, and most of all 1.8/85 are for me on the same appreciation level as Germans or Russians.
Sometimes I also happen to like the newer Nikkors like the 1.4/50 AI. But in most cases, I find the AI and AF Nikkors to give images that are too "thin" for my taste, a bit anemic. I prefer images that have more of a "punch" when they come out from the lens.
I have the same feeling in worse degree for the Canon EF lenses, except for one, the EF-S 60 Micro, which is -as of today- the only AF lens that I really like - perhaps because I always use it in manual mode
Worst of the worst are for me the lenses by Sigma, I really dislike them, I made a mistake to buy some of them because they were affordable, but I already sold them all.
Tamrons are a bit better than Sigma, they have more body to their images, should I have to buy another EF lens again I would always prefer a Tamron over a Sigma.
But... give me a Zeiss, Leica, Meyer, Arsenal, Lytkarino lens over a Japanese lens anytime. Well, I don't mean this as an absolute judgement. It is just what is good for me and makes me happier But I am not totally closed to Japanese lenses, I have more than 10 Nikkors still, and a few days ago I have bought a SMC Takumar 3.5/135 (for a very little price).
- _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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