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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: zeiss zm 25/2.8 vs zm 28/2.8 vs contax G 28/2.8 |
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rbelyell wrote:
does anyone know how these lenses compare in sharpness, color and distortion?
thanks
tony _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
The ZM Biogon 25 is one of the sharpest lenses ever made, there just can not be competition with it in the sharpness department, a look at it's MTF curves will make your jaw drop on the floor.
Distortion wise, there are very few lenses that are better than the G Biogon 28. One of those few is the ZM Biogon 2/35.
The ZM Biogon 25 distortion is moderate, but still about double that of the G Biogon 28
Colour wise, they are both Zeiss lenses with T* coating, this means that their colouring is perfectly controlled. Of course you will get perfect consistency only between lenses of the same line
(G lenses with G lenses, ZM lenses with ZM lenses), but Zeiss philosophy has not changed, so you can be sure that the colours will be very similar to undistinguishable.
I mean, of all possible issues of a lens, colour is really the last ever to worry about with T* lenses. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
thank you orio. so it seems the zm 28/2.8 is the 'worse' of the three... _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
rbelyell wrote: |
thank you orio. so it seems the zm 28/2.8 is the 'worse' of the three... |
Yes.
Well, not that it's a bad lens at all... _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
I didn't try the ZM Biogons but I'm very sure that the G-Biogon will optically fulfill all your needs
It's optically one of the best lenses every made. Very sharp, very good colors, very good contrast and very low distortion.
And it's usually cheaper than the ZM Biogons. But the ZM has an M-Mount - the G version not - The M-version will be much easier to focus of course and you can use it on modern M-cameras. _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
yeah FS, i think youre right, but youve correctly identified the issue. film vs digital vs cost vs performance vs jeez! my intuition, backed by yor and orio's discernment, is the G is the way to go. my problem is i cant get that to work on my m mount film cams! oh well, i think the best bet for me is to go with the G! now i guess i have to buy a freaking G1...scheisse! _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Orio, how does the old 2.8/35 Biogon/Jupiter-12 compare to these modern Biogons?
Just wondering, and I know you always give honest appraisals. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Orio, how does the old 2.8/35 Biogon/Jupiter-12 compare to these modern Biogons?
Just wondering, and I know you always give honest appraisals. |
I never tried the old Biogon, but I love my Jupiter-12
It's a completely different lens from modern Zeiss however
just the same as old time Zeiss lenses are different from modern Zeiss.
Until the 60s Zeiss' main concern was the perfect planarity and uniform performance, giving up peak performance
in favour of consistency through out the frame.
From the 70s onwards, pushed by the commercial success of Japanese lenses, Zeiss changed course and started to
put sharpness and microcontrast first, accepting in change some weakness of performance in the corners especially wide open.
The philosophy can be seen in practice by looking at the MTFs of the Contax SLR lenses, which in most part show that typical "bell" shaped curve at the end of the graph.
The MTFs of Contarex lenses instead show lenses with inferior peak performance but higher consistency and average performance.
The Jupiter-12 has a magical bokeh and renders beautifully on film.
Modern Zeiss produce images that are much more contemporary looking. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thankyou, that makes sense.
My J-12 arrived today (thanks Attila!)
Sadly it rained all day
But as soon as weather allows I will be shooting it on my Kiev-II
Fingers crossed it's a cracker, it's a silver 1960s one (67 I think, my memory is awful) and in great shape.
It's probably the only Biogon type I'll ever be able to afford. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
Quote: |
The Jupiter-12 has a magical bokeh and renders beautifully on film. |
That's interesting. I can't say I've ever seen a picture using the Jupiter where I was impressed with the oof quality. Looks to be rather average to me, nothing particularly unique. Would you care to define "magical" here Orio? Sorry I don't mean to derail the conversion from the modern zm and g lenses, it's just the first time I've seen mention of the Jupiter 12's bokeh. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
The only reason I don't use my Jupiter-12 much is because my copy only mounts on the prewar Contax/Kiev
it is unmountable on M-bayonet cameras because even with the adapter in between, it still bangs against the curtains.
You will love yours, I am sure. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
themoleman342 wrote: |
That's interesting. I can't say I've ever seen a picture using the Jupiter where I was impressed with the oof quality. Looks to be rather average to me, nothing particularly unique. Would you care to define "magical" here Orio? Sorry I don't mean to derail the conversion from the modern zm and g lenses, it's just the first time I've seen mention of the Jupiter 12's bokeh. |
Well, it's magical for me because I love the tri-dimensionality it creates.
Probably for a Leica-minded user the bokeh of the J-12 sucks, because it does not melt into the background potage that Leicists approve.
Here's a few of my J-12 photos, taken with the Kiev-IV:
_________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html
Last edited by Orio on Wed May 09, 2012 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Very impressive shots Orio, I just pray my J-12 performs like that!
It's still raining heavy here, but as soon as I can, I'm testing mine out with a roll of Fomapan 100. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
I like #2 a great deal Orio. The dimensionality is fantastic. Still, I guess the bokeh doesn't entirely work for me. It's actually a little too smooth, too benign. It would be perfect for some subjects but it's just not for me. Thanks so much for your input. |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 8551 Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
Orio
Those are awesome
patrickh _________________ DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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