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msteen1314
Joined: 10 Jan 2012 Posts: 72 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: Bessa T as a starter rangefinder |
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msteen1314 wrote:
Hi all, I recently saw a sale on eBay for a Bessa T
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200726739534?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I've been thinking about Bessas lately and while this one seemed to go pretty quickly, I'd like to get your thoughts on the pros and cons of the Bessa T from those who have actually used them versus those who review them.
I'm comfortable with older rangefinders however with age come worsening eyesight and the 1.5x rangefinder window appeals to me as well as the exposure reading on the top.
I also understand that a fair price is what anyone is willing to pay but in reality how much would I expect to pay for a basic Bessa T with a wide angle 25-35mm range.
The Cameraquest.com site has lots of info, too much right now to help me.
Thanks in advance for any assistance
Martin _________________ Bessa T 25mm Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar
Zorki 4 Industar 50mm f3.5
https://www.flickr.com/photos/msteen1314/ |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Ok, I had it, and I'm going to be sincere... I hated it. The absence of a viewfinder forced me to always focus in rangefinder first, then
reach for the additional (and costly) viewfinder mounted on the flash shoe... as a result, I had 100% of my street photographs
missed.
Obviously, if you don't mind about snapshots, and are only interested in still subjects, the above limitation will not affect you much...
but... I also can not figure out why someone would want to buy a manual rangefinder if snapshots aren't part of his agenda.
So, my conclusion is that it's a product that missed its goal.
But, this is my personal judgement. I also know of people who like the Bessa T. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
martin, i sent you a PM.
just to give another experience, i love mine. my research said that it was the most accurately focusing RF, and accurately focused close up and fast lenses wide open, both notorious problems for RF cameras. i personally found it impossible to focus my summarit 50/1.4 wide open or close up with other M mount film cams. plus my eyes stink, so the bessa t 1.5x magnification was a godsend. and i have had no problems close focusing my summarit or shooting it wide open sice getting the T. i love having the meter on the outside as i can meter even before the cam hits my eye, and if i'm shooting hyperfocally, i can go straight to the vf.
yes it does take some getting used to, going from RF to external VF, and it surely is a matter of taste. i just took to it because i was so happy that i could SEE and focus! also, i got a tewe turret vf 35-135 for about $75, and another 50-85 for $50. as for 'snapshot' or shooting hyperfocally, i think the reason is its just part of what you can do with this cam, as with any cam really, but the external meter really helps for that kind of shooting. plus as opposed to large slrs, you can get a tiny tiny 25mm snapshot skopar, which is one of the best WA's out there and you can fit the whole rig, including external vf, in your jacket pocket. i loved mine so much i ended up buying the navy blue anniversary edition. i was actually planning to post some camera 'porn' on it here soon, its so beautiful.
anyway, it really does come down to a matter of personal taste. i can understand how soeone could be much less enthusiastic than i about it.
tony _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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msteen1314
Joined: 10 Jan 2012 Posts: 72 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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msteen1314 wrote:
Thanks Orio and Tony, quite different experiences from both of you.
I would have thought that as a street camera, the external meter and zone focus would have been an excellent option considering time is of the essence. Currently zone focusing is what I prefer when street shooting as it seems to be less invasive on the subject, granted, auto focus on many cameras eliminates this concern.
In practice I don't know that I'd be overly worried about the focus due to the depth of field as well as the critical framing due to the wide angle of view. I would imaging however that the use of longer lenses may change this opinion.
I'm considering this almost as a dedicated street/landscape camera with the 25mm as the only lens.
Please more opinions !!! I know there are a lot of Bessa users out there based on past threads (although I couldn't find as many on the)
Thanks again Orio and Tony
Martin _________________ Bessa T 25mm Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar
Zorki 4 Industar 50mm f3.5
https://www.flickr.com/photos/msteen1314/ |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
well as a street cam with the cv 25/4 set to f8 it is a 'point and shoot' rig that you can carry in your pocket. if you just want a cam for that single purpose might i also suggest the contax T. it has a 38mm lens that when set to f8 has very similar DOF to the cv25. plus its a zeiss lens, its a RF and it fits in your shirt pocket! i have one and there is ALWAYS film in it. i read that it was one of cartier-bresson's favorites.
really, imo, the reason to choose the T is that it gives you the flexibility to both be a fast street shooter but also permits you to shoot other great M/M39 lenses with absolute focusing confidence. _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Think about Russian RF much more less costs you can discover RF usage on inexpensive way, only look when you buy seller must declare camera in working condition , film tested if possible. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
If someone shoots "pure" hyperfocal, then the rangefinder becomes irrelevant - but you still need different hotshoe viewfinders for different focal lenghts,
which add to the expense - and while the turret solution might solve the problem of carrying different viewfinders (and losing them at times...), if you want to stealth-photograph,
attaching such a thing as the turret does make your camera very noticeable.
My street technique is different - I use my variation of hyperfocal technique, which I pompously call the "adaptive hyperfocal"
it consists in setting the camera-lens ensemble for hyperfocal, but quickly adjust focusing distance on the fly.
This technique relies still on the useability of hyperfocal, but the quick adjustment of focus, even if not precise, lets you gain enlargement estate.
If an image taken with pure hyperfocal may enlarge well up to 12x18 cms, an image taken with adaptive hyperfocal may enlarge well to 20x30 cms
(or even more if you've been good).
This can make an important difference in image quality, and it's a technique that is only possible if you have a rangefinder-integrated viewfinder.
Having that said, everyone has his own shooting style so what is not good for me may be good for you.
I personally think that the difference in price between the Bessa T and the Bessa R3 is not such to justify useability sacrifices,
but to everyone his own - Tony proves that the T too can make people happy. What is important is to understand things well before buying, in order to avoid remorses. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
people do enjoy and make good use of russian rf's, and theyre certainly cheap. attila has posted beautiful work with many of them. i have one and personally find the weird metering system much too intrusive for my style. thus i used it once, became exceedingly frustrated and it now sits by itself in my closet...could be my own limitations. _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
In street photography usually ok measure light once a day and after a few times you know well from your memory. Especially with B&W film not really important. I use always handheld meter and measure once light on trip. My favorite Russian RF cameras are FED-2, Zorki2-C , KIEV-III , KIEV-4 , Zorki-4 etc _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 5486 Location: Left Coast
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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F16SUNSHINE wrote:
If you plan to Zone focus and shoot primarily street the Bessa T is an oversized camera with an overkill RF system.
For pure zone I would choose an Olympus XA4.
It's tiny, has a brilliant f3.5/28mm Zuiko lens, almost completely silent leaf shutter, and a nice bright 28mm VF.
Seriously this camera is the size of box of cigs. A street shooters dream camera. _________________ Moderator |
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msteen1314
Joined: 10 Jan 2012 Posts: 72 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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msteen1314 wrote:
thanks Attila for your input regarding Russian rangefinders. I currently use a Kiev 4a and enjoy it quite a lot, even though its a 1977 model, the design just take me back.
The one thing that may be getting lost in this thread however is that my eyesight has been getting worse over the years and as a result the 7 Retinas as well as the Kiev, not to mention the Vito B's (which I love), are becoming too frustrating to use on a regular basis unless I'm really in the mood for them - sad but true
It was with this in mind that I began to look at what was out there based on what I need rather than what I want. With that in mind, something like the Bessas with their relatively large white on black markings as well as the external exposure meter seems to fit the need I require and as such got me looking at the various models out there.
Budget is always a concern especially when you are venturing into an area that you are not 100% sure will accomplish your intended goals. The higher end Bessas certainly peak my interest however it was simplicity that I had in mind and for the most part the Bessa T seems to be going in that general direction.
Orio, you indicate that your "hybrid" zone focus partially works however it's not completely to your liking with the Bessa T and that's a good point for me to consider as in execution I may find this also.
Thanks again for all of your input
Martin _________________ Bessa T 25mm Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar
Zorki 4 Industar 50mm f3.5
https://www.flickr.com/photos/msteen1314/ |
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msteen1314
Joined: 10 Jan 2012 Posts: 72 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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msteen1314 wrote:
When it comes to being inconspicuous.
Which is better, a slim street photographer with a moderate sized camera
Or a chubby middle aged photographer with a small camera.
Just a thought ....not going to say where I belong
_________________ Bessa T 25mm Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar
Zorki 4 Industar 50mm f3.5
https://www.flickr.com/photos/msteen1314/ |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
msteen1314 wrote: |
Orio, you indicate that your "hybrid" zone focus partially works however it's not completely to your liking with the Bessa T and that's a good point for me to consider as in execution I may find this also. |
I'm not sure to understand Or perhaps I explained myself poorly.
The technique I use works very well for me, not partially.
The problem with the T is that I can not use it with that technique. The T can only be used with pure hyperfocal use in street situation. Or, for subjects that are still, like a landscape. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 5486 Location: Left Coast
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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F16SUNSHINE wrote:
Retinas, Kiev, Vito ?
I thought you asked about a starter rf _________________ Moderator |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
F16SUNSHINE wrote: |
If you plan to Zone focus and shoot primarily street the Bessa T is an oversized camera with an overkill RF system.
For pure zone I would choose an Olympus XA4.
It's tiny, has a brilliant f3.5/28mm Zuiko lens, almost completely silent leaf shutter, and a nice bright 28mm VF.
Seriously this camera is the size of box of cigs. A street shooters dream camera. |
seems similar in all ways to contax T i mentioned, only 28/3.5 vs 38/2.8. _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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msteen1314
Joined: 10 Jan 2012 Posts: 72 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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msteen1314 wrote:
F16SUNSHINE wrote: |
Retinas, Kiev, Vito ?
I thought you asked about a starter rf |
''
Good point. What I meant is that while the vintage rangefinder and viewfinder cameras are great, I wanted something made in the last 10-15 years or that allowed me a little more ease when it came to the picture taking process yet allowed me to maintain control. Eyesight is the drive on this one.
For someone with tricky eyesight, the Retinas can be a challenge as can the Kiev. Having a built in light meter is something that I'm looking for and the bold lettering on newer lenses helps quite a bit.
Needless to say, if my eyesight was still as it was, there would be no reason to seek other users experiences with other cameras as I'd be out comfortably shooting with the ones I have. _________________ Bessa T 25mm Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar
Zorki 4 Industar 50mm f3.5
https://www.flickr.com/photos/msteen1314/ |
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
This reminds me of when my eyes got ahead of my glasses some 15 years ago, and the OM2s / 01a Adaptall combo became a bit difficult to focus... I went in three directions, in order: 1) got me a Yashica T4, 2) got me a Beattie screen for the OM2s, and sometime later 3) got me one of them autofocus Pentaxes (having plotted the digital future and thus rejected Canon, Nikon and Minolta)...
My eyesight seems to have recovered, funny to say. As long as the RF patch is contrasty enough, things are good. But I do see the time ahead when the squinty ones will need to be sold off.
So, perhaps a modern RF that has a bit less magnification but has at least some frame lines? Although do these cover an ultra wide anyhow? If you can see it you can learn to estimate framing. _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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msteen1314
Joined: 10 Jan 2012 Posts: 72 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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msteen1314 wrote:
Thanks Nesster
As you can see from my thread, the eye sight thing has gotten my in a flux, the Bessa T in which I'm looking seems to offer what I believe I'm looking for and its just a matter of determining through listening to other peoples experiences what obstacles they have encountered with this type of set up.
The 1.5x magnification on the range finder is something that I believe will come in handy.
Trying various camera set ups can be expensive so I'm trying to do as much leg work right now so as not to make an error later on.
Thanks again _________________ Bessa T 25mm Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar
Zorki 4 Industar 50mm f3.5
https://www.flickr.com/photos/msteen1314/ |
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
IMO and IMExperience we can get used to any set up, with a bit of fearless abandonment of preconceived notions and pre-formed habits. Shooting with cameras with NO focus aid and NO meter was incredibly stressful for me - and I discovered a strange fear of letting through too much light... but I soon got comfortable and don't hesitate using even a 6x9 folder as a street cam.
So if you're trending towards this, I think you'll adapt and adjust to its mix of advantages and limitations. Go for it, and document the adventure for the rest of us _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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