Best 6x9 folding rangefinder for landscapes

[bramms]

Hello.

I'm looking for 6x9 folding rangefinder.
I'll use it for landscapes, so optics sharpness and coating is important.
Up to $150.

Any ideas?

Possible variants:
Rodenstock 6X9 + Rodenstock Trinar-Anastigmat 105mm 3.8
Moskva - 5

[Nesster]

The two you mention seem good. I've used a Bessa I Vaskar from the '50s with great success as a landscape camera.

I'd generalize: Any 6x9 folder from the 1950's, from a better manufacturer but with either a triplet or a 4 element coated lens will do about equally well. The differences have to do with condition, and how fast the shutter is (and maybe more important: how smooth the shutter is), and where and what kind of tripod bushing it has.

[Attila]

I did try dozens of cameras all thing important not only lens, if camera construction is weak or damaged a bit , may you not recognise at all result will be unsharp. For example I have amazing experience with Novar Anastigmat and really bad, both.
Think about also do you really need 6x9 ? In my experience 6x4,5 is more than enough.

Pentax 645 to prove 6x4,5 is more than enough

http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/filmcamera/japanese/pentax-645-flektogon-50-kodak-ektachrome-100/?

some 6x9 what I like really and cheap.

http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/filmcamera/german/franka/franka_II_rodenstock_trinar_105_f3_5/?
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/filmcamera/german/ercona_ii/?

finally cheaper 6x4.5 folders

they have 6x6 and 6x4.5 mode
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/filmcamera/german/welta/weltax-carl-zeiss-jena-tessar-6x6/?
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/filmcamera/german/welta/weltax/?

[luisalegria]

Attila is perfectly right.

The critial parts, for best results, are -

Getting the infinity adjustment correct. With these old cameras infinity almost always needs to be adjusted.

The front standard/lens needs to be perfectly parallel with the film plane.

The film needs to lie as flat as possible.

There must be no light leaks !

These things can ruin a folding camera no matter how good the lens is, or even whether it has a rangefinder or not.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Luis, could you please explain how to adjust for infinity. I have just bought a dirt cheap 6x9 folder and want to spruce it up to use.

[Nesster]

I use a version of this technique
http://members.tripod.com/rick_oleson/index-123.html

Most folders are font cell focusing. Usually, you need to loosen or remove any trim ring, and then adjust the cell to good sharpness, and then tighten/replace the trim ring. Although, there are a few different mechanisms that the lens/camera makers used to fix the infinity stop on the lens, that's pretty much it.

A coupled rangefinder adds much complexity to this as you have to try to get both rf and lens to agree. I find that for actual landscape work, an RF is not necessary.

I realize I have the good camera / to be collimated camera reversed, usually, from what Rick has. That is, I put a bit of 120 film or a 'ground glass' target I made out of a CD cover on the folding camera, with the back open, on a tripod, with a light behind it. I peer in through the folder's lens with a SLR and long-ish fast lens, and then gingerly rotate the folder's front cell to get best focus on the target.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Cheers for that, mine has no rf, so it will be easier.

[bramms]

Thanks for answers.
Yes, I plan to buy Pentax 645. Specially for 45mm wide lens.
But I realy like 6x9 format.
I found some Voigtlander Bessa with Skopar 105/3.5 for $105 and Moskva 5 for $55.
I prefer Voigtlander. Looks like the Skopar lens is much better.

[F16SUNSHINE]

If you plan to shoot color slides make sure you get one with a shutter that is easily serviced as speeds will need to be accurate for best results.
The Voigtlanders Are nice as they use Compurs. You can still get parts.
I like the skopar stopped down past f5.6. More open it has some pretty swirly corners.

[luisalegria]

Jussi has it right.

My technique is more crude - I have pieces of plastic ground on one side (like Jussi's CD covers) taped inside the film gate.

I set up the camera with the back unlatched pointing at a distant object.

I remove (or loosen, depends on the camera) the ring, etc, as Jussi says, and I adjust the front cell untill the image on the groundglass is sharp. I usually use a loupe to check the groundglass image. When its sharp I put the ring back on in infinity position and I tighten it down.

The same process more or less for cameras with unit focusing, but you have to find the infinity adjustment specific to the camera. Those with focus scales on the bed are easiest, just loosen the screcs and move the scale.

As for rangefinders, there is usually a procedure specific to each rangefinder. You usually have to find the right adjustment screw, to set infinity, but often one needs to go further. For best results you really need to check the rangefinder at several distances. It can get quite complex on some. The Kalart rangefinders (like on Speed Graphics) can take a lot of work.

[iangreenhalgh1]

[Attila]

Take bessa RF with Skopar way better than Moskva I didn't suggest it due on Ebay not available under 150 USD what was your budget limit

[luisalegria]

"can I just sand a piece of perspex (plexiglas) with emery paper to make a ground glass? "

Pretty much, yes.

It should be fine sandpaper. I have used 400-grit with success. These days I am using 800.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Cheers Luis, I shall try it when the camera arrives.

[Lloydy]

Probably 'wet and dry' abrasive paper that car body shops use will be the best, I would guess the abrasive size will be more consistent than woodworking sandpaper ? and it can be used wet, laid flat on something level like an old mirror, to get an even finish.

[skida]

[luisalegria]

It doesn't seem to make a lot of difference to try for evenness with plastic and sandpaper.

Once completely sanded each section doesn't get noticeably different from any other with multiple passes.

These days I just lat it down flat on a wooden table, tape it down and hit it with one of these -

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BO3700X6-Sander-Sheets-Sandpaper/dp/B0002HC46O/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&qid=1333412163&sr=8-34

[iangreenhalgh1]

Ooh, I've got a belt sander, a flatbed sander and a detail sander so I'm sure I can do something.

Just hope that infinity correction is the worst of the issues I have to deal with when it arrives, it was so cheap because it was listed badly, with the common 'old camera I found, no idea what it is or anything about it' description so I took a gamble.

It looks to me like a German 1930s folder, possibly an Agfa Billy Record, the mystery kind of adds to the anticipation...



All I can read on the lens is ??????-Anastigmat.

[luisalegria]

Could be a lot of things indeed. There were dozens of very similar cameras.

I am going to call it a Franka Rollfix.

[iangreenhalgh1]

We shall see when it arrives, I shall start a thread. Just hope I can get it all working.

[Minolfan]

I hope for you at least the bellows is light tight, that is the most encountered problem for me with Agfa folders. And not easy to solve when the material is detoriated too much.

[iangreenhalgh1]

It arrived today and I am very pleased to report it is in excellent condition. The lens is a Rodenstock Trinar-Anastigmat and is perfectly clear, no haze, fungus, scratches or marks. The Prontor II shutter fires on all speeds and the top 1/150 looks like it may still be pretty close to that. The bellows are in great shape, I can find any pinholes or cracks.

Luis was right, it's a Franka Rolfix.

There is only one issue I can find - the lens/shutter assembly isn't parallel to the film plane, it's slightly tilted forward at the top, I'm not sure how I can fix this, most annoying as I would have liked to run film through this beauty right away...

[Nesster]

Re the tilt - it may LOOK that way, but not be out of alignment in fact. I have cameras that look to be out of parallel but it seems to be an optical illusion as I don't see anything wrong with the results.

[iangreenhalgh1]

This one is definitely tilted, if I press hard with my fingers on the bottom of the front standard it moves to the correct position but won't stay there an I don't see a way of jury-rigging it to make it stay in that position.

[Nesster]

As you are opening the camera, or close it just a wee bit, then push the standard forward and fully open / lock the mechanism. I have to do this with a Hapo/Balda I have.