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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: innovative and drastic way of remove fungus |
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Jesito wrote:
Fungus are one of our daemons. Once infected, the lenses (even carfully cleaned) can develop again more fungus due to the remaining spores.
That's what I told my friend Angels, that is a beginner with the MF lenses and her Olympus E-P1 (This is her picture repository)
Martinsmith was so kind of sending me a nice FD 50mm 1.8, (a little fungused) for her. I dismounted the front element, where most of the fungus was visible and cleaned it. Next, I put the lens under the UV bath for a couple of days. And gave it to Angels (thanks, Martin!).
She didn't tell me, but remembered what I told her about the fungus. She was a little scared about the lens ans its infectious capabilities. She's working at a big hospital and they have several autoclaves to sterilyze many things made up of steel, glass and fabric. She knows the autoclave kills fungus, and being the lens made of glass, metal and strong plastic, should'nt pose any problem. But she didn't tell me before. I would have suggested to take apart the lens and put it into the autoclave in parts...
So the lens went into the autoclave and passed a cycle to kill fungus.
Some days later we met to talk about photography and share a coffea, and he brougth me the lens, and explained the process.
At first I thought the barrel could have lost the engravings, but after a close inspection I didn't see any damages outside. But inside the lens, several big spots on the top lenses show the process wasn't innocuous at all. And also, the diaphragm blades didn't move at all... That means I have to open it and try to fix it.
In spite of the current result, the idea seems very good to me. A way of assure the fungus are killed even if they are inside small and unaccessible places. So we'll have to repeat the test in different conditions, not with the whole lens assembled.
She took some pictures to document it:
And this is the lens after the treatment:
Now is time for a disassemble. A
Regards.
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Hmmm... I don't know what to think about it.
You remove the fungus and pay for it by having stains on the front element and non-working blades?
BTW, I have started to experiment with ozone. Also some kind of dangerous stuff, can harm your lungs. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Hmmm... I don't know what to think about it.
You remove the fungus and pay for it by having stains on the front element and non-working blades?
BTW, I have started to experiment with ozone. Also some kind of dangerous stuff, can harm your lungs. |
I think the problem was to put the whole lens assembled into the autoclave. Maybe there was some fluid (water or whatever else) that vaporized with the temperature and left that marks on the top lenses, (left nothing on the bottom ones) and probably left some deposit between the diaphragm blades that stuck them. But I see no traces of the previous fungus. I'm disassemblng it right now, I'm hopeful that this processs (done in the proper way) can be safe for assuring fungus removal.
BTW, how do you get ozone?. Be careful, it's aggressive. (as you probably know).
Regards.
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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Sevo
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 1189 Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Expire: 2012-12-03
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Sevo wrote:
All water should vanish in the initial vacuum treatment of an autoclave - but as the lens would later be flooded with 121°C hot steam, there would be more water inside after than before the process... _________________ Sevo
Last edited by Sevo on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 1633 Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
In former days, when a fungus infected lens came back to Zeiss Jena service, they threw away the complete glasses and the metall barrel was put into a chamber with fungizid poison to kill the fungus.
Klaus _________________ my Ebay auctions
Canon 5D II,
Fuji GW690III, Fuji G617, Fujifilm X-E1
Bessaflex TM
Tachihara 4"x5"
Summilux-R 1:1,4/50
Canon FD 85mm 1:1,2
Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 SL
www.autoselbstfotografie.de
www.classic-cameras-and-lenses.de |
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Sevo
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 1189 Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Expire: 2012-12-03
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Sevo wrote:
Jesito wrote: |
BTW, how do you get ozone?. Be careful, it's aggressive. (as you probably know).
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Ozone can only be generated, as it is unstable. You can buy small ozone generators for aquarium and koi pond use all over ebay. Those with a integrated pump might do, but I still am sceptical whether a whole lens treatment with home-brew equipment can be successful. On reasonably dust sealed lenses it might be close to impossible to get a sufficient ozone concentration into the space between the cells in the short period until the ozone breaks up. You'd probably have to evacuate the lens first - at which point you'd need a pile of expensive advanced lab equipment. And then there is the risk of destroying rubber grips or oxidizing all grease in the lens solid - these components might prove more vulnerable to ozone than mould spores. _________________ Sevo |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:36 am Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
Cool method!
Instead of an autoclave 20-30mins in an pressure cooker will also work well to kill the fungus and spores.
Jesito wrote: |
LucisPictor wrote: |
Hmmm... I don't know what to think about it.
You remove the fungus and pay for it by having stains on the front element and non-working blades?
BTW, I have started to experiment with ozone. Also some kind of dangerous stuff, can harm your lungs. |
I think the problem was to put the whole lens assembled into the autoclave. Maybe there was some fluid (water or whatever else) that vaporized with the temperature and left that marks on the top lenses, (left nothing on the bottom ones) and probably left some deposit between the diaphragm blades that stuck them. But I see no traces of the previous fungus. I'm disassemblng it right now, I'm hopeful that this processs (done in the proper way) can be safe for assuring fungus removal.
BTW, how do you get ozone?. Be careful, it's aggressive. (as you probably know).
Regards.
Jes. |
I think the problem are the lubes in the lens which were evaporitating and cracking partially, causing hardening and condensation while cooling down the lens again which caused the stains and the stuck aperture blades.
Also many plastics contain softener agents which are fairly volatile - and some common plastics are not able to withstand temperatures above 100°C, causing slow deformation. Keep that in mind when your lens has some plastic parts.
For single glas or metall parts it should work very well indeed. You have to warm up and cool down everything very slowly as the heat might cause tension in the glas. Overall an elegant method and good idea.
Ozone can be generated by electric disscharge or very strong UV radiation... there are some cheap generators on Ebay.
But ozone has some drawbacks:
-It's aggressive, It may ozonolyse ingriedients of the lubes and plastics, causing condensates on the lenses, hardening,...
-It may be able to oxidize some coating ingriedients (but I guess it reacts to slowly to play a siginifcand role as long as the lens is kept dry during the exposition)
-It's very slowly on low concentrations under dry conditions - at least some spores will survive several hours of exposition
-It kills the fungus but does not remove it, giving a good nutrition for "reforestation"
-It may not reach everywhere in the lens, there are always some nearly airthight parts - radiation would be better there.
>=6% H2O2 is a little less aggressive than ozone but will also kill and remove the fungus and any spores. If you don't care about coatings, or all the other methods didn't work you can use 5-15% ammonia + 15-30% H2O2 about 1:1 - that will hydrolyse and dissolve any fungus very easy and fast while not etching or hazing the glas (but the mix will also dissolve most coatings very easy). _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Originally, I use ozone in order to destroy smells from used bags and so on. That stuff works wonder there.
But after I have put a lens inside a closed plastic bag in which the ozone is procuded by a small generator and left it in there, I can't judge if it has helped or not. The lens did not have any fungus, just some "thing" inside which could have been anything.
The ozone treatment was just some extra measure.
I would not be able to say that ozone helps against fungus infection and would rather think it doesn't. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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