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innovative and drastic way of remove fungus
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: innovative and drastic way of remove fungus Reply with quote

Fungus are one of our daemons. Once infected, the lenses (even carfully cleaned) can develop again more fungus due to the remaining spores.

That's what I told my friend Angels, that is a beginner with the MF lenses and her Olympus E-P1 (This is her picture repository)

Martinsmith was so kind of sending me a nice FD 50mm 1.8, (a little fungused) for her. I dismounted the front element, where most of the fungus was visible and cleaned it. Next, I put the lens under the UV bath for a couple of days. And gave it to Angels (thanks, Martin!).

She didn't tell me, but remembered what I told her about the fungus. She was a little scared about the lens ans its infectious capabilities. She's working at a big hospital and they have several autoclaves to sterilyze many things made up of steel, glass and fabric. She knows the autoclave kills fungus, and being the lens made of glass, metal and strong plastic, should'nt pose any problem. But she didn't tell me before. I would have suggested to take apart the lens and put it into the autoclave in parts...

So the lens went into the autoclave and passed a cycle to kill fungus.

Some days later we met to talk about photography and share a coffea, and he brougth me the lens, and explained the process.
At first I thought the barrel could have lost the engravings, but after a close inspection I didn't see any damages outside. But inside the lens, several big spots on the top lenses show the process wasn't innocuous at all. And also, the diaphragm blades didn't move at all... That means I have to open it and try to fix it.

In spite of the current result, the idea seems very good to me. A way of assure the fungus are killed even if they are inside small and unaccessible places. So we'll have to repeat the test in different conditions, not with the whole lens assembled.

She took some pictures to document it:









And this is the lens after the treatment:



Now is time for a disassemble. A

Regards.
Jes.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I don't know what to think about it.
You remove the fungus and pay for it by having stains on the front element and non-working blades?

BTW, I have started to experiment with ozone. Also some kind of dangerous stuff, can harm your lungs.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LucisPictor wrote:
Hmmm... I don't know what to think about it.
You remove the fungus and pay for it by having stains on the front element and non-working blades?

BTW, I have started to experiment with ozone. Also some kind of dangerous stuff, can harm your lungs.


I think the problem was to put the whole lens assembled into the autoclave. Maybe there was some fluid (water or whatever else) that vaporized with the temperature and left that marks on the top lenses, (left nothing on the bottom ones) and probably left some deposit between the diaphragm blades that stuck them. But I see no traces of the previous fungus. I'm disassemblng it right now, I'm hopeful that this processs (done in the proper way) can be safe for assuring fungus removal.

BTW, how do you get ozone?. Be careful, it's aggressive. (as you probably know).

Regards.
Jes.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All water should vanish in the initial vacuum treatment of an autoclave - but as the lens would later be flooded with 121°C hot steam, there would be more water inside after than before the process...

Last edited by Sevo on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In former days, when a fungus infected lens came back to Zeiss Jena service, they threw away the complete glasses and the metall barrel was put into a chamber with fungizid poison to kill the fungus.

Klaus


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesito wrote:

BTW, how do you get ozone?. Be careful, it's aggressive. (as you probably know).


Ozone can only be generated, as it is unstable. You can buy small ozone generators for aquarium and koi pond use all over ebay. Those with a integrated pump might do, but I still am sceptical whether a whole lens treatment with home-brew equipment can be successful. On reasonably dust sealed lenses it might be close to impossible to get a sufficient ozone concentration into the space between the cells in the short period until the ozone breaks up. You'd probably have to evacuate the lens first - at which point you'd need a pile of expensive advanced lab equipment. And then there is the risk of destroying rubber grips or oxidizing all grease in the lens solid - these components might prove more vulnerable to ozone than mould spores.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool method!
Instead of an autoclave 20-30mins in an pressure cooker will also work well to kill the fungus and spores.
Jesito wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
Hmmm... I don't know what to think about it.
You remove the fungus and pay for it by having stains on the front element and non-working blades?

BTW, I have started to experiment with ozone. Also some kind of dangerous stuff, can harm your lungs.


I think the problem was to put the whole lens assembled into the autoclave. Maybe there was some fluid (water or whatever else) that vaporized with the temperature and left that marks on the top lenses, (left nothing on the bottom ones) and probably left some deposit between the diaphragm blades that stuck them. But I see no traces of the previous fungus. I'm disassemblng it right now, I'm hopeful that this processs (done in the proper way) can be safe for assuring fungus removal.

BTW, how do you get ozone?. Be careful, it's aggressive. (as you probably know).

Regards.
Jes.

I think the problem are the lubes in the lens which were evaporitating and cracking partially, causing hardening and condensation while cooling down the lens again which caused the stains and the stuck aperture blades.

Also many plastics contain softener agents which are fairly volatile - and some common plastics are not able to withstand temperatures above 100°C, causing slow deformation. Keep that in mind when your lens has some plastic parts.

For single glas or metall parts it should work very well indeed. You have to warm up and cool down everything very slowly as the heat might cause tension in the glas. Overall an elegant method and good idea.

Ozone can be generated by electric disscharge or very strong UV radiation... there are some cheap generators on Ebay.
But ozone has some drawbacks:
-It's aggressive, It may ozonolyse ingriedients of the lubes and plastics, causing condensates on the lenses, hardening,...
-It may be able to oxidize some coating ingriedients (but I guess it reacts to slowly to play a siginifcand role as long as the lens is kept dry during the exposition)
-It's very slowly on low concentrations under dry conditions - at least some spores will survive several hours of exposition
-It kills the fungus but does not remove it, giving a good nutrition for "reforestation"
-It may not reach everywhere in the lens, there are always some nearly airthight parts - radiation would be better there.


>=6% H2O2 is a little less aggressive than ozone but will also kill and remove the fungus and any spores. If you don't care about coatings, or all the other methods didn't work you can use 5-15% ammonia + 15-30% H2O2 about 1:1 - that will hydrolyse and dissolve any fungus very easy and fast while not etching or hazing the glas (but the mix will also dissolve most coatings very easy).


PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Originally, I use ozone in order to destroy smells from used bags and so on. That stuff works wonder there.

But after I have put a lens inside a closed plastic bag in which the ozone is procuded by a small generator and left it in there, I can't judge if it has helped or not. The lens did not have any fungus, just some "thing" inside which could have been anything.
The ozone treatment was just some extra measure.

I would not be able to say that ozone helps against fungus infection and would rather think it doesn't.