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NEX-5N and NEX-C3: Annoying aspect ratio
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: NEX-5N and NEX-C3: Annoying aspect ratio Reply with quote
The aspect ratio of NEX-5N is 4912/3264 = 1.5049

Resizing an image to, say, 1000 height, the width should be 1504.

This is very annoying...
Why did they do this?


PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To what point is that annoying for you, if I may ask?


PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
To what point is that annoying for you, if I may ask?

Because it is "almost" 3:2.
If you want to resize to a certain 3:2 ratio, you also have to crop it.
And because I can see no good reason why they have done this.

The Nex-7 is 6000 X 4000. Not, say, 6019 X 4000
Wouldn't that seem odd to you?
To me it does look odd. This is why I find it annoying.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about the other sensors (in a Nikon, Canon, Pentax...)? Are they always precisely 3:2?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
What about the other sensors (in a Nikon, Canon, Pentax...)? Are they always precisely 3:2?

As far as I know, they are.

It is the first digital camera I use (out of 5) which is not 3:2 or 4:3 exactly.

For instance,
5D Mk II is 5616/3744 = 1.5
5D original is 4368/2912 = 1.5


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nkanellopoulos wrote:

It is the first digital camera I use (out of 5) which is not 3:2 or 4:3 exactly.

For instance,
5D Mk II is 5616/3744 = 1.5
5D original is 4368/2912 = 1.5


Well, that seems to be a Canon peculiarity - Nikon, Sony and Leica are slightly off ratio. But this will be determined by the sensor technology and de-mosaic software. And given that the side ratios of most printers (except for dedicated pre-press proofing tools) and even quite a few monitors are off by far more than 16 pixels width, it is quite irrelevant whether you have to crop a few pixels to reach a supposedly "exact" side ratio...


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sevo wrote:

Well, that seems to be a Canon peculiarity - Nikon, Sony and Leica are slightly off ratio

This is not exactly true.

The NEX-7 is 6000:4000, apparently 3:2 exactly
So is Sony a65.

My first digital camera (back in 2003) was the fine Nikon Coolpix 5000.
This was 2560:1920 = 4:3 exactly


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think this is really not matter some pixel more or less.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
I think this is really not matter some pixel more or less.

+1
the Nex is already cropped to half the size of a full frame, 10 pixels more or less will not make difference Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Problem only when output requires 1.5; giving 1.5049 forces a re-size, with possible information addition or loss. Printer routines? I don't know, but suspect instead of re-size, the motion increment gets adjusted.

How about a pi*r^2 sensor, r=18mm? Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pentax K-5: 4928x3264 = 1.5098
Pentax K-x: 4288x2848 = 1.5056
Sony NEX3 : 4592x3056 = 1.5026
EOS 1000D: 3888x2592 = 1.5

I think that the real shame is that modern DSLRs (apart from 4/3) use the 3:2 aspect ratio to begin with. I have been trying to compose in 4:3 wherever possible lately and it seems to me a much more natural ratio to look at and an easier one to compose in.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
William wrote:
I think that the real shame is that modern DSLRs (apart from 4/3) use the 3:2 aspect ratio to begin with. I have been trying to compose in 4:3 wherever possible lately and it seems to me a much more natural ratio to look at and an easier one to compose in.

It would be a very useful feature, for me at least, to be able to choose the aspect ratio for any particular shot in the camera, rather than having to crop later.. Some cameras do have a choice, but it is very limited and never the ratio I'd like. I very often crop pictures square or to the "Golden Ratio" (1:1.618), which often works well aesthetically, especially in portrait orientation. I even use 1:1.4142 (root 2) sometimes (the aspect ratio of standard ISO paper sizes), which gives a regular border round an image when centred on the page.

All three of these ratios are more useful and pleasing than arbitrary ratios like 3:2, 4:3 or 16:9, and so I don't think it's important that an image should be exactly 1:1.5. You never know, those extra 4.9 pixels might come in useful one day! Smile


PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
nkanellopoulos wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
To what point is that annoying for you, if I may ask?

Because it is "almost" 3:2.
If you want to resize to a certain 3:2 ratio, you also have to crop it.
And because I can see no good reason why they have done this.

The Nex-7 is 6000 X 4000. Not, say, 6019 X 4000
Wouldn't that seem odd to you?
To me it does look odd. This is why I find it annoying.


Forget about it and take good pictures.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

Forget about it and take good pictures.

Sure.
But if you forget about it while ordering prints, you will discover a white line in the one end of your frame.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: NEX-5N and NEX-C3: Annoying aspect ratio Reply with quote
Other cameras are not exactly 3:2 too. Most of those that are, just cut away a few pixel to fit 3:2. You can do that too. Cutting away four pixel makes your NEX-pictures 1000x1500. You can put it somewhere inside your digital darkroom workflow. Next to resize, for example.

On the other hand you can use Photoshop CS5s amazing ability to fill the missing pixels with plausible ones Laughing

Actually, I did this to make an 1:1 from a 3:2. Photoshop filled the missing sky.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: NEX-5N and NEX-C3: Annoying aspect ratio Reply with quote
Glow wrote:
Other cameras are not exactly 3:2 too. Most of those that are, just cut away a few pixel to fit 3:2. You can do that too. Cutting away four pixel makes your NEX-pictures 1000x1500. You can put it somewhere inside your digital darkroom workflow. Next to resize, for example.

On the other hand you can use Photoshop CS5s amazing ability to fill the missing pixels with plausible ones Laughing

Actually, I did this to make an 1:1 from a 3:2. Photoshop filled the missing sky.

I take a LOT of pictures.
I do not want to spend my life in front of photoshop because some colleague programmer was lazy.
This is elementary for the manufacturer to fix .
They advertize 3:2.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This could be added to the user wish list for firmware updates. Not as default, but as an option for users, that print their images without computer directly from the SD-Card. Because nobody can tell, what some print sevices will do with non-matching picture sizes. Other manufacturers have done that exact cropping to 4:3 or 3:2 or 16:9 too, although their sensors, like in Sony NEX, are slightly bigger. You can check this in the RAW-files.

I want to have the choice. Years ago there was even a software to uncrop RAW-Files, which were soft-cropped to fit into a certain format. The sensor data was there, but masked by a parameter inside the RAW. Does somebody remember the name and a link?

I think it is ok for us to work with images, that are in the full sensor size, that is different from standard print sizes. Guys, we are users on mflenses.com. We are enthusiasts that do slightly more to achive the results that we want, than an average camera user. Everybody here can easily crop the images by hand or fully automatic or learn how to do it. For Lightroom, Photoshop and Windows command line batch I´m glad to help and my solutions can be ported to Mac and Linux easily. Those who use other operating systems should be able to use the command line solutions too. Even my old computer can crop JPEGs lossless as fast, as my hard drive can read and write them.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Old marketing trick: rounding.

These are ridiculous examples of '3:2' rounding:

3.4:1.6

2.6:2.4 (nearly a square!)

I still want a pi*r^2 sensor!!!
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