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contax 35-70
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: contax 35-70 Reply with quote
the new lens of Orio. Some shots from today











PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice series , good to see blue sky at winter time!


PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like great detail, what f/stop did you take the photos at?

P.S. if you would like to share the phone number of the lady in picture #3, I guess I would not object Wink
She presents herself with two very convincing...er... arguments! Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is a good lens - puts me in mind of the nikkor for the same range. Very sharp, excellent colour and decent OOF. Actually it may be my favourite walkaround lens


patrickh


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Poilu has a big advantage with zooms, he can use them any time of the year thanks to the Rhodos weather.
Here I just took this same lens out in the balcony for a morning test and to stop down to f/8 I needed to set a ISO 400. If my subject was a moving one, I would have had to set it to ISO 800 or 1600, and maybe also open to f/5.6, in order to get a 1/250 shutter time.

Theoretically zooms are handy lenses but in practice unless you live in a place like Rhodos you can forget about them for 3 months (like Northern Italy) or perhaps 6-8 months (like Norway).

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Poilu has a big advantage with zooms, he can use them any time of the year thanks to the Rhodos weather


3.5 is half stop slower than 2.8, not a big deal
I use the contax 35-75 mainly at 3.5 because it's already very good
the first shot is at 1/2000s for 100 iso, it was wide open
In fact I use mainly contax lenses because they give me top result wide open
F5.6 is the maximum I use on any lenses
F5.6 is the theoretical optimum for a lens, after you have diffraction
I think that if someone want to shoot at F11 to maximize dof he should use a tripod
Also a point & shot give maximum dof, with a 10 Mpixels Ricoh GR Digital II you have a 28mm at F2.4 that rival with the best dslr.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:

3.5 is half stop slower than 2.8, not a big deal
I use the contax 35-75 mainly at 3.5 because it's already very good


My copy is not that good wide open. It needs f/5.6 to be similar to prime lens quality at f/2 or 2.8. I'm speaking of full frame of course.

Quote:
the first shot is at 1/2000s for 100 iso, it was wide open


Here at f/3.5 I would not be able to shoot faster than 1/125 on a typical grey winter day. That's why I said that you have an advantage.

Quote:
In fact I use mainly contax lenses because they give me top result wide open


My copy of 35-70 is soft wide open on the edges of the full frame (5D), and just acceptable in the centre. Where acceptable means that you don't really want to shoot at that aperture - you just do when you don't have a choice.

Quote:
F5.6 is the maximum I use on any lenses


Why? You should choose based on the subject. For subjects where the edges are important f/8 is always better than f/5.6

Quote:
F5.6 is the theoretical optimum for a lens, after you have diffraction


You have diffraction but you also have improvement on the edges which balances the diffraction and so while in many cases (but not always) the sweet spot of a lens performs best at f/5.6 (but there are lenses like the Contax 2/100, 1.4/85 and 2/135 where the sweet spot is at f/4 or sometims also f/2.8 ), in most if not all cases, the most balanced performance between centre and edges is obtained at f/8, for some lenses even f/11.

Quote:
I think that if someone want to shoot at F11 to maximize dof he should use a tripod


DId I mention the DOF? I don't think so. My main concern was and is to obtain a shootable 1/250


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
My copy of 35-70 is soft wide open on the edges of the full frame (5D), and just acceptable in the centre


Yes I forgot about this corner problem and thinking only about dof
I read many time about bad corner performance on the 5D but when I shot film, I have good border with the 35-70 even wide open.
It is something I cannot understand, are the border of the 5D so bad vs film ?

Quote:
My main concern was and is to obtain a shootable 1/250

Half stop between 2.8 & 3.4 mean you have to shot 1/180s at F3.4 on a zoom vs 1/250s at 2.8 on a fixed.
And I know you rarely shot under F5.6 for your border problem on 5D, so a fixed or a zoom don't change nothing relative to speed.
If I shot 28mm, I work at 1/30s, for a 35mm at 1/60s with good result
I would use 1/250s only for focal bigger than 135
And I mean it also for moving subject like children.
the lady in picture #3 is 1/160s for 70mm equivalent to 112mm, is this not enough sharp ?
Same speed for #4, I think it's quite sharp for shot against sun

Quote:
It needs f/5.6 to be similar to prime lens quality at f/2 or 2.8

http://www.geocities.com/ilprode/VarioS_35-70f34.htm
The 35 2.8 have 6.2 border at F4 where the 35-70 have 6.3 border at F3.4
At F5.6 the 35-70 have border 8.3 where the maximum of the 35 at any aperture is 7.4
Your best lens the planar 100 F2 need also to close to F5.6 to reach 8.3 if it say something to you.
Your second best lens the 135 F2 never pass 8.2
The makro planar 100 never go over 8 if you ever wonder
Even the planar 50 1.4 need also to close to F5.6 to reach 8.4
center of 35-70 wide open is 8.7 where fixed 35 need 5.6 to have this level
8.7 is a performance not many fixed lenses can dream about
YASHICA 28 don't go over 8 at any aperture, YASHICA 24 don't go over 8.4 at any aperture
at 50mm the 35-70 give 9 wide open where YASHICA 50 don't go over 8.4 at any aperture
so if any of your YASHICA come close to the 35-70 we have a problem
Also the maximum border sharpness for the 35-70 is at F5.6, if border on you copy get better at F8 that could means you have a focus problem and border get better because of DOF.
So if the fixed 35 have better performance in the border, you must have a lemon 35-70

Last edited by poilu on Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:28 pm; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:

Yes I forgot about this corner problem and thinking only about dof
I read many time about bad corner performance on the 5D but when I shot film, I have good border with the 35-70 even wide open.
It is something I cannot understand, are the border of the 5D so bad vs film ?


No, my 5D has excellent edge performance with lenses that deliver it.

Quote:
If I shot 28mm, I work at 1/30s, for a 35mm at 1/60s with good result
I would use 1/250s only for focal bigger than 135
the lady in picture #3 is 1/160s for 70mm equivalent to 112mm, is this not enough sharp ?


What has sharpness to do with shutter speed? I need 1/250 in order to freeze movement of moving people. It is the minimum, and sometimes it's not enough.

Quote:

http://www.geocities.com/ilprode/VarioS_35-70f34.htm
The 35 2.8 have 6.2 border at F4 where the 35-70 have 6.3 border at F3.4
At F5.6 the 35-70 have border 8.3 where the maximum of the 35 at any aperture is 7.4
center of 35-70 wide open is 8.7 where fixed 35 need 5.6 to have this level
8.7 is a performance not many fixed lenses can dream about
Also the maximum border sharpness for the 35-70 is at F5.6, if border on you copy get better at F8 that could means you have a focus problem and border get better because of DOF.
Also my 35-70 give me better corner performance than my distagon 28 2.8 even on my crop 400D, only the distagon 28 2.0 is unbeatable
So if the fixed 35 have better performance in the border, you must have a lemon 35-70


It is possible that I have a bad copy.
However, look at this.
This is the MTF of the 35-70 at 35mm focal lenght, wide open.
It is taken from the MTFs published on www.zeiss.de :



Look at the 40mm lines (those that indicate the resolution, i.e. teh detail rendition of the lens). Both sagittal and tangential are below 0.2 at the edge. This means low detail. Even the sagittal at 20mm line is below 0.2 while tangential is about 0.4
But it's not only the lowest point. It's also the slope. The performance of the 40mm line goes at or below 0.4 already at half way. Only the very centre of the lens is sharp at f/3.5
It's true that these are better figures than the 1.4/35 prime wide open. But this does not make them good figures in absolute terms.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
What has sharpness to do with shutter speed? I need 1/250 in order to freeze movement of moving people


you was so long to reply that I modify my post, I had new things
when I go in playground with children who move like basketball player, I shot at 1/60s, sometime I have a hand or food who is little blurred but it's give better feeling with sense of mouvement.
I don't trust the Mtf of Zeiss, every time the lenses get better than those lifeless graphic
I just check the graph is over 0.6, who is my quality limit


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Poilu, really nice shots from this fine lens!.
It's a pleasure to read the "Zorbas's Restaurant!" sign Smile
What does puzzles me is that you brought your camera at your own wedding, and your ability to shot to yourself from so far away Wink (last picture).
Congratulations for the event Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Best regards,
Jes.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Jes
Zorba was the film who help tourism here in Greece, I think you will find everywhere in the world Zorba restaurant
I am sad to say that it is not me the lucky one on the last picture Wink
I am already married and I am only allowed to see through my lenses Crying or Very sad
Maybe in my next live...
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