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Which lens is the APO-Telyt-R 180/3.4? |
Lens A) is APO-Telyt-R 180/3.4 |
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38% |
[ 5 ] |
Lens B) is APO-Telyt-R 180/3.4 |
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61% |
[ 8 ] |
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Total Votes : 13 |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: APO-Telyt-R 180/3.4 vs. APO-Lanthar 180/4 |
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Esox lucius wrote:
WHAT'S UP
Voigtländer SL 180mm f/4 APO Lanthar N/Ai-S sn 93400xx
Voigtländer SL 180mm f/4 APO Lanthar N/Ai-S sn 93306xx
Leica APO-Telyt-R 180mm f/3.4 Leitax N/Ai-S sn 27495xx
APO-Telyt is reversible mount modification, achieves perfect infinity focus on Nikon D3 without glass adapter. APO-Lanthars are original N/Ai-S mount. When I previously tested the APO-Lanthars against each other I could not find any sample variation between them.
GALLERY
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/mfl_club_members/esoxlucius/TelytLanthar/
RESULTS
Guess which lens is which? EXIF data will not reveal the answer.
LENS A, FULL FRAME RESIZED
LENS B, FULL FRAME RESIZED
LENS A, CENTER CROP 100%
LENS B, CENTER CROP 100%
LENS A, UPPER EDGE 100%
LENS B, UPPER EDGE 100%
BACKGROUND
The APO-Lanthar is generally considered a close focus lens optimized for near to medium distance subjects, whereas the APO-Telyt as a marine surveillance lens is generally considered to be optimized for medium to infinity distances. While focal length is comparable, their max aperture differs slightly: f/4 vs. f/3.4
EXPOSURE
Theoretically, the faster lens should not be penalized for shooting both wide open, so I chose f/5.6 for both. On both lenses, center detail likely peaks at this aperture as well.
APERTURE
All test shots are exposed at f/5.6. Since the APO-Lanthars have click-stops half f-stops and the APO-Telyt stepless aperture (due to Leitax conversion I think) I calibrated the f-stop used first with APO-Lanthar and then I very very carefully matched an identical histogram distribution with the APO-Telyt. Incidentally, at that point the APO-Telyt f-stop scale indicated exactly f/5.6 so I could have just set the diaphragm size from the aperture ring as well, and still achieved comparable exposures.
SHOOTING CIRCUMSTANCES
All test shots are shot in light evenly dispersed overcast & light drizzle within minutes from each other. White balance was set to 5880K from the camera. Exposures are with no clipping of any color channel, thanks to an evenly soft light. Not even the sky is clipped.
FOCUSING
Focusing distance measured with laser rangefinder showed 56.2 meters. APO-Telyt has tightly spaced scale with 10-15-20-30-50-infinity whereas APO-Lanthar settles with 10-20-infinity. In other words, both lenses indicated near infinity on their range scales. Focus was set with Live View and both lenses had 5 test shots each, I shuffled and re-focused with Live View for every shot. During image evaluation, I compared shots with each other and ruled out some shots which where misfocused despite my careful effort to achieve optimum comparable focus. The ones I picked for the samples are thus as perfectly focused in the same identical spot in the center of the frame.
OTHER CAMERA SETTINGS
Tripod and sandbag. Exposure is f/5.6 1/50s ISO 200. I used self timer release (10s) as well as exposure delay mode to rule out mirror slap.
RAW to JPEG CONVERSION
All files are converted from RAW to JPEG using Nikon Capture NX 2.2. Color mode is the safe middle choice of Standard, sharpening was set to 5 on a scale of 0 to 9. No color correction, contrast or levels were applied. Saved as 100% quality, crops are 100% apart from the full-size stuff which I resized to fit into this thread.
Near focus and bokeh shots to follow.
Last edited by Esox lucius on Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:38 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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cheve
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Posts: 182
Expire: 2011-12-06
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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cheve wrote:
thanks for the great effort. however, is it my eyes or the lens, both center and edge crop from 'B' appears to be soft. According to the dof calculator, http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html, the dof should be 43.5m to 79.5m at the said test setting(ie. D3, 180mm, f5.6 at 56.2m). I do not think the distance between the center point in the center crop to the object shown in the edge crop is more than 23m. Would there be a miss focus between 'A' and 'B'?
OTOH, if there is no miss focus, then I want the 'A' lens(ops.. correction.. your copy of the 'A' lens).
Cheers, _________________ Adaptall-2: 17/3.5(51B),80-210/3.8-4(103A),60-300/3.8-5.4(23A) C/Y: CZ 35-70/3.4,RMC Tokian 80-200/4.5
EXk: Topcor Re Auto 35/2.8(broken),135/3.5, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5 Leitz-R: 50/2,90/2,180/4,180/3.4,Angenieux 35-70/2.5-3.3
M42: pentacon 135/2.8,135/2.8(preset),Super-Takumar 55/1.8,Meyer-Optik 50/1.8 FD: Voigtlander 125/2.5 SL
K: smc 50/1.2, porst 55/1.2, Takumar(Bayonet) 135/2.5 Minolta: rokker 58/1.4,58/1.2 nikkon: Nikkor H Auto 300/4.5
OM: 21/2,21/3.5,28/3.5,50/1.2,300/4.5,500/8,35-70/3.6, viv 17/3.5,viv 28/1.9,viv 135/2.3
Rollei: Voigtlander Color-Ultron 55/1.4 AR T: Tele-Astranar 135/3.5
EF: 30/1.4(Sigma),50/1.8,28-70L,80-200L,24-105L,70-300DO,18-200OS(Sigma)
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
It is difficult to tell Vilhelm, because the two pictures are exposed differently and the difference in exposure may cause a colour shift. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
*if* the colours are correct, I would say Apo-Telyt is lens B. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
cheve wrote: |
dof should be 43.5m to 79.5m at the said test setting(ie. D3, 180mm, f5.6 at 56.2m). I do not think the distance between the center point in the center crop to the object shown in the edge crop is more than 23m. Would there be a miss focus between 'A' and 'B'? |
The rangefinder tells me that the upper edge roof ridge is about 9m behind the center point of focus.
Possibly uncomparable focus point though I did make a big effort to avoid it. Lens samples posted are best sharpness I got from several shots focused at same spot using Live View. This scene I shot 5 times with each lens, so I had 10 shots with Lanthars to choose from (discarded 2 as misfocused) and 5 shots with Telyt to choose from (discarded 1 as misfocused). I did my best to pick the best results and chose identical histogram distribution to have comparable exposures.
Possibly also detail towards edge deteriorates more with lens B than with lens A.
When I look at the whole series of test shots with different scenes and a variety of exposure values, I see an undisputable difference in the two lenses: Lens A renders colors differently from lens B. Lens B has what looks like a slight green cast over the whole image, and has lower contrast overall.
Orio wrote: |
the two pictures are exposed differently and the difference in exposure may cause a colour shift. |
It's now dark and I will have to wait for tomorrow to be able to do more test shooting. Histograms for those shots posted above do not support different exposure theory: 1/50s ISO 200 f/5.6. Because Telyt has stepless aperture control and Lanthar click-stops I set Lanthar to f/5.6, and then carefully tuned the diaphragm size on Telyt until I achieved identical histogram distribution = identical aperture.
Color channel differences in saturation are explained by how differently the lenses paint colors.
LENS A
LENS B
I will do more work tomorrow on this.
Last edited by Esox lucius on Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:02 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
When I look at the whole series of test shots, I see an undisputable difference in the two lenses: Lens A renders colors differently from lens B. Lens B has what looks like a slight green cast over the whole image, and has lower contrast overall. |
And these are exactly the reasons why I said the Telyt should be lens B .
But as I know from experience, my DSLRs slightly shift colour hue with exposure, I could not be 100% completely sure. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
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Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
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james
Joined: 25 Sep 2009 Posts: 308
Expire: 2011-12-28
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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james wrote:
While this may be due to the deficiencies of my monitor, the Center Crop detail seems sharper on A with better contrast compared to B. Also, the edges to the vertical metal sheeting seen in the Upper Edge crop has the slightest hint of color fringing on B whereas none is seen in A, suggesting to me that B is the Lanthar and A is the Leica; despite its label as 'APO', the CV 180 APO isn't perfectly apochromatic. Both look nonetheless very sharp. (I can always blame the Dell monitor I'm using today if I'm wrong). Just picked up the Leica 180/3.4 and await my Leitax mount so haven't shot with it yet and can't comment on it.
Vilhelm: the detents on the aperture ring with a Leitax conversion is unpredictable but when I converted one lens and it didn't click, I removed the mount, repositioned it and the clicks resumed, though not as precise as with the native R mount. You might want to try that.
Last edited by james on Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:17 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
james wrote: |
Vilhelm: the detents on the aperture ring with a Leitax conversion is unpredictable but when I converted one lens and it didn't click, I removed the mount, repositioned it and the clicks resumed, though not as precise as with the native R mount. You might want to try that. |
I want to keep the Leica aperture control as stepless, because that way I can lock ISO and shutter, and use the stepless aperture control to fine-tune the Leica to an identical histogram left/right distribution = identical aperture therefore identical exposure with the Lanthar exposure.
If the aperture step is even slightly off it's real value then I will have serious difficulty in achieving identical exposures with both lenses, 1/3 stop shutter speed changes are far less sensitive than stepless aperture control. |
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Abbazz
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 1098 Location: Jakarta
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Abbazz wrote:
There is a slight green cast on the pictures taken with lens B, which I have never seen on pictures taken with my Apo-Lanthar. I have never used the Apo-Telyt, so I don't have any direct knowledge of its imaging characteristics but what I know about the Apo-Lanthar and what I have read about the Apo-Telyt lead me to guess that the Voigtländer might be lens A and the Leitz lens B.
Cheers!
Abbazz _________________ Il n'y a rien dans le monde qui n'ait son moment decisif, et le chef-d'oeuvre de la bonne conduite est de connaitre et de prendre ce moment. - Cardinal de Retz
The 6x9 Photography Online Resource:
http://artbig.com/ |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
Weather conditions this morning became unfavorable after 1 hour of shooting, but I am now almost 100% sure it is the difference in how the lenses paint that prevents me from achieving identical exposures where only detail would separate them.
Lens set to infinity and confirmed accurate by live view. Distance to subject is about 1.3 kilometers which is outside the range of my laser rangefinder so I had to measure from a map. These are both 100% crops, white balance 4800K and sharpness set to 5 on a scale of 0 to 9. Identical RAW to JPEG conversion, all settings at neutral.
LENS A - 100% crop @ f/5.6
LENS B - 100% crop @ f/5.6
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cheve
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Posts: 182
Expire: 2011-12-06
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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cheve wrote:
Thank you for the great effort. the detail/sharpness looks more or less the same to my eyes in the new set of shots. I think someone with good PS skill would make whatever the difference there are to go away. I guess the winner is CV180 in my book, since it has shorter MFD, and is reported to do better job with closeup:-D
Just a request. Where possible, would you put on an average/consumer grade lens and take a sample shot(say like the one above). This will show how good these lens are and would be very informative.
Cheers, _________________ Adaptall-2: 17/3.5(51B),80-210/3.8-4(103A),60-300/3.8-5.4(23A) C/Y: CZ 35-70/3.4,RMC Tokian 80-200/4.5
EXk: Topcor Re Auto 35/2.8(broken),135/3.5, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5 Leitz-R: 50/2,90/2,180/4,180/3.4,Angenieux 35-70/2.5-3.3
M42: pentacon 135/2.8,135/2.8(preset),Super-Takumar 55/1.8,Meyer-Optik 50/1.8 FD: Voigtlander 125/2.5 SL
K: smc 50/1.2, porst 55/1.2, Takumar(Bayonet) 135/2.5 Minolta: rokker 58/1.4,58/1.2 nikkon: Nikkor H Auto 300/4.5
OM: 21/2,21/3.5,28/3.5,50/1.2,300/4.5,500/8,35-70/3.6, viv 17/3.5,viv 28/1.9,viv 135/2.3
Rollei: Voigtlander Color-Ultron 55/1.4 AR T: Tele-Astranar 135/3.5
EF: 30/1.4(Sigma),50/1.8,28-70L,80-200L,24-105L,70-300DO,18-200OS(Sigma)
Last edited by cheve on Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I confirm my early opinion, Leitz is lens B. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
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james
Joined: 25 Sep 2009 Posts: 308
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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james wrote:
I still see better resolution & contrast on the roof of "A" (may be my uncalibrated monitor speaking again). The Leica 180/3.4 was a "spyglass" designed for military applications so it ought to render better than the commercial CV 180 even though it's 20 years older in design. That's my guess. I will also reiterate that they both do a stellar job and that cheve's suggestion that a third shot featuring a more mundane lens @ 180mm may also help put things into perspective is a great idea.
(We're so demanding of poor Vilhelm's free time!).
Last edited by james on Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
cheve wrote: |
The detail/sharpness looks more or less the same to my eyes in the new set of shots. I think someone with good PS skill would make whatever the difference there are to go away. |
I agree, but out of camera results is what I prefer as most clients do not want to pay for the "invisible hours" spent in the digital darkroom. It is however still too early for me to draw conclusions, I intend to do more test shots.
cheve wrote: |
Where possible, would you put on an average/consumer grade lens and take a sample shot(say like the one above). This will show how good these lens are and would be very informative. |
Average consumer telephoto lenses is one of the many things my camera equipment is lacking. Someone in Helsinki have a 70-300 or similar they want to borrow? Has to fit Nikon.
As a sidenote, these APO lenses likely outperform my sensor at infinity therefore I would need say a D3x to really show what they can do. _________________ Vilhelm
Nikon DSLR: D4, D800, Nikon D3, D70
Nikon SLR: Nikon F100, Nikon FM2n
Nikkor MF: 20/2.8 Ai-S, 24/2 Ai-S, 24/2.8 Ai-S, 28/2 Ai-S, 28/2.8 Ai-S, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 Ai-S, 45/2.8 GN, 50/1.2 Ai, 50/1.2 Ai-S, 50/1.4 Ai, 50/1.4 Ai-S, 50/1.8 AI-S "long", 50/1.8 AI-S "short", 55/1.2 Ai, 85/1.4 Ai-S, 85/1.8H, 105/2.5 Ai, 135/2.8Q, 135/3.5 Ai, 180/2.8 Ai-S ED
Nikkor AF/AF-S FX: 14-24/2.8G, 16/2.8D Fisheye, 16-35/4G VR, 17-35/2.8D, 24/1.4G, 24/3.5D PC-E, 24/2.8D, 24-70/2.8G, 28/1.4D, 28/1.8G, 35/1.4G, 35/2D, 50/1.4D, 50/1.4G, 50/1.8G, 60/2.8 Micro, 60/2.8G Micro, 70-200/2.8G VR, 70-200/2.8G VR II, 80-400/4.5-5.6D VR, 85/1.4G, 85/2.8D PC-E Micro, 105/2D DC, 105/2.8G VR Micro, 135/2D DC, 200/2G VR, 200-400/4G VR, 300/2.8G VR, 300/4D ED, 400/2.8G VR, 800/5.6E VR
Nikkor AF/AF-S DX: 10.5/2.8G Fisheye, 12-24/4G, 18-70/3.5-4.5G
Topcor: Auto-Topcor 58/1.4,
Voigtländer SL: 40/2 Ultron, 58/1.4 Nokton, 75/2.5 Color-Heliar, 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar, 125/2.5 APO-Lanthar, 180/4 APO-Lanthar
Zeiss ZF: Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF
M42 SLR: Voigtländer Bessaflex TM
M42: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.4, Tessar 50/2.8 T, Super-Takumar 55/1.8, Biotar 58/2 T, Pentacon 135/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5
Medium format: several Zeiss Super Ikonta 532/16 Opton-Tessar 80mm f/2.8, Zeiss Ikonta 524/16 Opton-Tessar 75mm f/3.5
Leica: R7, M4, Super-Angulon-R 4/21, Elmarit-R 2.8/28, Summicron-R 2/35, Summicron-M 2/35, Summicron-M 2/50, Elmarit-R 2,8/180
Last edited by Esox lucius on Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: APO-Telyt-R 180/3.4 vs. APO-Lanthar 180/4 |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
WHAT'S UP
Voigtländer SL 180mm f/4 APO Lanthar N/Ai-S sn 93400xx
Voigtländer SL 180mm f/4 APO Lanthar N/Ai-S sn 93306xx
Leica APO-Telyt-R 180mm f/3.4 Leitax N/Ai-S sn 27495xx
... |
Hey, that's two against one! That's not fair! _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
james wrote: |
Orio's suggestion that a third shot featuring a more mundane lens @ 180mm may also help put things into perspective is a great idea. |
It was not my suggestion. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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james
Joined: 25 Sep 2009 Posts: 308
Expire: 2011-12-28
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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james wrote:
My apology, Orio. It was "cheve" who suggested it. |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
Again, f/5.6 and same white balance, same settings, same post-processing, same sharpening etc. etc.
LENS A 20m center
LENS B 20m center
LENS A 4m bokeh uncropped
LENS B 4m bokeh uncropped
_________________ Vilhelm
Nikon DSLR: D4, D800, Nikon D3, D70
Nikon SLR: Nikon F100, Nikon FM2n
Nikkor MF: 20/2.8 Ai-S, 24/2 Ai-S, 24/2.8 Ai-S, 28/2 Ai-S, 28/2.8 Ai-S, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 Ai-S, 45/2.8 GN, 50/1.2 Ai, 50/1.2 Ai-S, 50/1.4 Ai, 50/1.4 Ai-S, 50/1.8 AI-S "long", 50/1.8 AI-S "short", 55/1.2 Ai, 85/1.4 Ai-S, 85/1.8H, 105/2.5 Ai, 135/2.8Q, 135/3.5 Ai, 180/2.8 Ai-S ED
Nikkor AF/AF-S FX: 14-24/2.8G, 16/2.8D Fisheye, 16-35/4G VR, 17-35/2.8D, 24/1.4G, 24/3.5D PC-E, 24/2.8D, 24-70/2.8G, 28/1.4D, 28/1.8G, 35/1.4G, 35/2D, 50/1.4D, 50/1.4G, 50/1.8G, 60/2.8 Micro, 60/2.8G Micro, 70-200/2.8G VR, 70-200/2.8G VR II, 80-400/4.5-5.6D VR, 85/1.4G, 85/2.8D PC-E Micro, 105/2D DC, 105/2.8G VR Micro, 135/2D DC, 200/2G VR, 200-400/4G VR, 300/2.8G VR, 300/4D ED, 400/2.8G VR, 800/5.6E VR
Nikkor AF/AF-S DX: 10.5/2.8G Fisheye, 12-24/4G, 18-70/3.5-4.5G
Topcor: Auto-Topcor 58/1.4,
Voigtländer SL: 40/2 Ultron, 58/1.4 Nokton, 75/2.5 Color-Heliar, 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar, 125/2.5 APO-Lanthar, 180/4 APO-Lanthar
Zeiss ZF: Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF
M42 SLR: Voigtländer Bessaflex TM
M42: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.4, Tessar 50/2.8 T, Super-Takumar 55/1.8, Biotar 58/2 T, Pentacon 135/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5
Medium format: several Zeiss Super Ikonta 532/16 Opton-Tessar 80mm f/2.8, Zeiss Ikonta 524/16 Opton-Tessar 75mm f/3.5
Leica: R7, M4, Super-Angulon-R 4/21, Elmarit-R 2.8/28, Summicron-R 2/35, Summicron-M 2/35, Summicron-M 2/50, Elmarit-R 2,8/180 |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
BACKGROUND
I already own the 180/4 APO-Lanthar and also have access to a 2nd copy of the same lens. In addition, I was offered the 180/3.4 APO-Telyt-R for purchase, and naturally I was interested as it has a reputation that is very high.
WHY ALL THIS TROUBLE?
Because I can. Because I have the lenses on my table.
WHICH LENS IS WHICH?
Lens A is APO-Lanthar. Lens B is APO-Telyt-R.
IN FAVOUR OF THE APO-Telyt-R
It has a slightly stiffer focusing feel which I find good. It is better geared for focusing near infinity, APO-Lanthar is more "touchy" to focus changes near the infinity mark. APO-Telyt extends slightly less than the APO-Lanthar when focusing towards MFD.
IN FAVOUR OF THE APO-Lanthar
APO-Lanthar is more contrasty throughout the aperture range. The light greenish overcast from the APO-Telyt-R is not appealing to me. Snow here has melted now but I imagine shooting snow with the APO-Telyt is a pain in the arse. The APO-Lanthar vignettes slightly less at f/5.6 and wide open. The aperture control is also more precise: even when not Leitax converted the aperture ring and click-stops of the APO-Telyt-R feel flimsy compared to the precise APO-Lanthar. The APO-Lanthar weighs slightly less and has a detachable lens hood, making it more compact in size. The diaphragm is also more rounded at smaller apertures, which affects only OoF highlight shape.
Detail?
At infinity it is a very close call, on my Eizo Coloredge CG222W I see a mathematical edge to the APO-Lanthar, which my eyes and brain probably interpret this way due to better contrast and more true colors.
At medium focusing distance (50m), APO-Lanthar pulls a slight lead. At 20m the APO-Lanthar is clearly better than the APO-Telyt-R.
At close focusing distance (<5m) I did not test detail, because given the different MFD (2.5m vs. 1.2m) and magnification ratio I did not find it meaningful to compare apples and oranges.
Bokeh is great on both lenses.
Both lenses are exceptional, but given what I see in the photos I've taken during two days I find it very hard to justify myself purchasing the more expensive Leica when it isn't better than the Voigtländer.
PURE SPECULATION
Since the APO-Telyt-R was designed for marine surveillance and in its time probably mostly used in conjunction with B/W film, the green cast is perhaps intentional? On B/W film it would make skies and grey warships slightly more contrasty, painting a better silhouette.
USER-INDUCED ERRORS
This is what I thought as well, once I started pixel-peeping the first shots. Which is why I yesterday changed methodology, to rule out focusing errors. I used Live View at 100% to confirm correct focus, then I shot 5-10 frames per setting and always shuffled and re-acquired focus again. Statistically, I saw about a 15-20% misfocus rate. It means that I could discard about 1 in 5 or 6 frames because another frame in the same sequence had better detail in the intended focus spot.
Most of the shots I did with tripod, sandbag & exposure delay mode (to rule out mirror slap), of the samples posted only the wooden cross is hand-held (at 1/500s).
SAMPLE VARIATION, DUD COPY
Anything is possible of course, but this is a Leica lens (not a Sigma). I am not going to go through all this nerdwork again to find out for that my two 180/4 APO-Lanthars are better than two 180/3.4 APO-Telyt-R's _________________ Vilhelm
Nikon DSLR: D4, D800, Nikon D3, D70
Nikon SLR: Nikon F100, Nikon FM2n
Nikkor MF: 20/2.8 Ai-S, 24/2 Ai-S, 24/2.8 Ai-S, 28/2 Ai-S, 28/2.8 Ai-S, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 Ai-S, 45/2.8 GN, 50/1.2 Ai, 50/1.2 Ai-S, 50/1.4 Ai, 50/1.4 Ai-S, 50/1.8 AI-S "long", 50/1.8 AI-S "short", 55/1.2 Ai, 85/1.4 Ai-S, 85/1.8H, 105/2.5 Ai, 135/2.8Q, 135/3.5 Ai, 180/2.8 Ai-S ED
Nikkor AF/AF-S FX: 14-24/2.8G, 16/2.8D Fisheye, 16-35/4G VR, 17-35/2.8D, 24/1.4G, 24/3.5D PC-E, 24/2.8D, 24-70/2.8G, 28/1.4D, 28/1.8G, 35/1.4G, 35/2D, 50/1.4D, 50/1.4G, 50/1.8G, 60/2.8 Micro, 60/2.8G Micro, 70-200/2.8G VR, 70-200/2.8G VR II, 80-400/4.5-5.6D VR, 85/1.4G, 85/2.8D PC-E Micro, 105/2D DC, 105/2.8G VR Micro, 135/2D DC, 200/2G VR, 200-400/4G VR, 300/2.8G VR, 300/4D ED, 400/2.8G VR, 800/5.6E VR
Nikkor AF/AF-S DX: 10.5/2.8G Fisheye, 12-24/4G, 18-70/3.5-4.5G
Topcor: Auto-Topcor 58/1.4,
Voigtländer SL: 40/2 Ultron, 58/1.4 Nokton, 75/2.5 Color-Heliar, 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar, 125/2.5 APO-Lanthar, 180/4 APO-Lanthar
Zeiss ZF: Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF
M42 SLR: Voigtländer Bessaflex TM
M42: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.4, Tessar 50/2.8 T, Super-Takumar 55/1.8, Biotar 58/2 T, Pentacon 135/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5
Medium format: several Zeiss Super Ikonta 532/16 Opton-Tessar 80mm f/2.8, Zeiss Ikonta 524/16 Opton-Tessar 75mm f/3.5
Leica: R7, M4, Super-Angulon-R 4/21, Elmarit-R 2.8/28, Summicron-R 2/35, Summicron-M 2/35, Summicron-M 2/50, Elmarit-R 2,8/180
Last edited by Esox lucius on Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:52 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
WHICH LENS IS WHICH?
Lens A is APO-Lanthar. Lens B is APO-Telyt-R.
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he-hee!
I never guessed a lens blind test wrong on this site, and this means more than three years _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bologna - Italy
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Esox lucius wrote: |
WHICH LENS IS WHICH?
Lens A is APO-Lanthar. Lens B is APO-Telyt-R.
|
he-hee!
I never guessed a lens blind test wrong on this site, and this means more than three years |
Hmmm... I could put up something really hard for you then _________________ Alessandro
My Photography Website
My Blog about Photography and Italian Cuisine
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Arsat Zodiak 30/3.5, Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Esox lucius wrote: |
WHICH LENS IS WHICH?
Lens A is APO-Lanthar. Lens B is APO-Telyt-R.
|
he-hee!
I never guessed a lens blind test wrong on this site, and this means more than three years |
Nice!
I never guessed well any _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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james
Joined: 25 Sep 2009 Posts: 308
Expire: 2011-12-28
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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james wrote:
Damn, I wish you ran the series before I bought the Leica 180/3.4 a week ago.... I was also intrigued with the reputation of the optic. I guess i can shoot it B&W if the greenish cast is there purposefully to increase contrast as Vilhelm theorized or sell it with a Leitax conversion once it arrives.
Decision, decisions...
Last edited by james on Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
A G Photography wrote: |
Orio wrote: |
Esox lucius wrote: |
WHICH LENS IS WHICH?
Lens A is APO-Lanthar. Lens B is APO-Telyt-R.
|
he-hee!
I never guessed a lens blind test wrong on this site, and this means more than three years |
Hmmm... I could put up something really hard for you then |
You would cheat, I know _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Abbazz
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 1098 Location: Jakarta
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Abbazz wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
Lens A is APO-Lanthar. Lens B is APO-Telyt-R. |
Thanks Vilhelm for the interesting comparative review. It confirms that the Apo Lanthar is really an outstanding lens, as the Leica lens is certainly no slouch either!
Cheers!
Abbazz _________________ Il n'y a rien dans le monde qui n'ait son moment decisif, et le chef-d'oeuvre de la bonne conduite est de connaitre et de prendre ce moment. - Cardinal de Retz
The 6x9 Photography Online Resource:
http://artbig.com/ |
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