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Hood
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 469 Location: Perth, Australia
Expire: 2013-09-16
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: Leica Monochrome, test shots up. |
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Hood wrote:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/05/11/my-one-hour-with-the-new-leica-monochrome-by-steve-huff/
interesting... _________________
-Josh
Currently shooting:
Digital:Sony Nex-5, Nex-5n, Pentax KX, Pentax K30 and Fuji JZ100
Film: Minolta x700, Contax 137MD, Chinon Memotron, Minolta 500si, Minolta 700si, Canon Ex-auto, Minolta 35DL weathermatic, Pentax espio 738, Minolta Himatic-G, Olympus Trip 35, Elixa Reflex-B, Pentax MZ-60
Lens Collection:Slr Magic 28/2.8, Slr Magic 35/1.7, Minolta Rokkor 45/2, Minolta Rokkor 50/1.4, Minolta W-Rokkor-sg 28/3.5, Minolta 35-70/3.5, Minolta Rokkor-PF 55/1.9, Minolta W.Rokkor 28/3.5, Monolta MD 50/2*2, Minolta 50/1.7, Minolta zealox bellows, Minolta e.Rokkor 75/4.5, Sony 18-55 3.5/5.6, Sony 16/2.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 55/1.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 50/1.5, Meyer Gerlitz Dimoplan 50/2.8,Meyer Gerlitz Orestegon 50/1.8, Tamron 35/2.8, Tamron 70-220/4, Tamron aspherical 28-200 3.8-5.6, Seimar 28/2.8, Aus Jena Tessar 50/2.8, Industar 50/3.5, Industar 26m 50/2.8, Industar 61 55/2.8, Industar 69 28/2.8, Carenar 45/2.8, Pentacon electric 50/1.8, Pentacon 30/3.5, Pentacon 29/2.8, Helios 44m 58/2, Miida 35/2.8, Miida 75-205/3.8, Cosina 28/2.8, Kenlock 135/2.8, Kenlock 35/2.8, Kenlock Mc-tor 28/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2, Vivitar 28-85 3.5-4.5 macro, Vivitar 28-80 3.5-5.6 macro, Exacta 35-70 3.5-4.8 macro, Sigma 35-70 2.8-4, Sigma 100-200 4.5, SamYong 18-28 4-4.5, Photax-Pharagon 35/2.8, Travenar 35/2.8, Travenar 50/1.8, Tokina 70-210 4-5.6, Tokina 28/2.8, Promura 200/3.5, Sirius 20-200 3.9, Soligor 200/3.5, Canon FL 50/1.8, Canon FD 35-70 3.5-4.5, Auto Focal 75-200/4.5, Zenit Zenitar 50/2,Tokina353 35-300mm(KX), Pentax 18-55(KX), Pentax 35-80(KX), Sigma 14mm F2.8(KX), Sigma 70-200mm(KX), Sigma 24-70mm(KX), Pentax 35-135 macro(KX), plus I have a few in for service right now and I'm always collecting more...
It's been a few years now, I need to sit down and update this list...it has grown considerably! haha
My Blog:
http://www.joshpereraphoto.com/
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
wow! he made a bunch of pics in just 1 hour, now I understand why it cost 8000$ _________________ T* |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
i like steve's blog. i think he tries to be balanced. he is a real leica fan, so it was heartening to hear a little disgust in his voice over their pricing.
you know, its hard to judge the actual quality of this camera's files from his blog. as much as i tried, i just couldnt put my finger on any special quality or look from them that i havent seen hundreds of times before. anyone feel differently? it could be the weird choice of lens he used, of all the lenses to bring to a major leica event, an slr magic?! so i guess we'll need to see more to judge the cameras performance. but surely with their pricing, they have set the bar near an impossible height.
tony _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Category: impossible dream.
But the lucky ones are surely going to totally dig it. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
orio, what did you think about the test shots? _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
rbelyell wrote: |
orio, what did you think about the test shots? |
The size of them makes a serious evaluation impossible.
For what I can see at the published size, they look really good, but honestly, they look like something that my M9 could do equally well.
But I am sure that at full size, the virtue of a monochrome sensor, with all the advantages derivating from the absence of a serial colour filtering, will come out strongly.
On the other hand, a monochrome camera means also giving up all the advantages in terms of "digital darkroom" that Photoshop has to offer with the B&W tool and the Channel Mixer. Which is undoubtedly a limitation, because one thing it's to use colour filters in front of the lens (and degrading, albeit slightly, the image quality, and losing stops of light), another thing is to be able to do it quietly afterwards at home in your studio, on a soft chair and in front of a cup of coffee. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The test shots are quite impressive but impossible to tell from that size if there is any difference from the output of any good digicam such as a NEX-7, NX200, X-Pro1 turned to BW.
I honestly think the difference in fine detail it supposedly has will only be apparent if you pixel peep or print the files at huge sizes.
It's a nice camera no doubt, but let's not forget it's just a crippled M9 with a few firmware tweaks.
Probably overpriced by about 5 grand. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
a while back i heard a rumor ricoh was going to come out with a b&w module for their gxr series. when coupled with their M mount module, thatd be pretty cool, and you could buy twelve of them for this price! but now you cant buy any because they never came out with it, did they...lack of competition breeds price inelasticity. _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
which shows a hidden truth about the whole thing: rangefinder photography, as we know and love it, it's simply a niche thing nowadays.
So it's no wonder, in my opinion, that Leica delivers elite products and price them consequently.
The masses want digicams or even better camphones, and to share photos on facebook instantly, etc.
We are in a weird position because we are an elite in terms of aesthetical taste and culture, but not in financial terms, so we can only sit and watch _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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BRunner
Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
Four full size samples can be downloaded from Leica here
http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/download-192_5.html
The Notre Dame and fisherman shots looks great to me. _________________ .: APO-Maniac :. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Orio wrote: |
which shows a hidden truth about the whole thing: rangefinder photography, as we know and love it, it's simply a niche thing nowadays.
So it's no wonder, in my opinion, that Leica delivers elite products and price them consequently.
The masses want digicams or even better camphones, and to share photos on facebook instantly, etc.
We are in a weird position because we are an elite in terms of aesthetical taste and culture, but not in financial terms, so we can only sit and watch |
Yes, we are an elite. I would love one of these mono Leicas but that will never happen. Oh well, as long as BW film is available I'm happy using that.
I'm a member of the Black and White Photography group on Facebook and I think I'm the only one there using film, everyone else is doing digital BW conversions. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Yes, we are an elite. I would love one of these mono Leicas but that will never happen. Oh well, as long as BW film is available I'm happy using that. |
For as handy and good as digital may be or become at B&W, I don't see it ever giving me the same thrill and joy that I get when I mount my negatives on the enlarger, and dive my print into the revelator. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Orio wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Yes, we are an elite. I would love one of these mono Leicas but that will never happen. Oh well, as long as BW film is available I'm happy using that. |
For as handy and good as digital may be or become at B&W, I don't see it ever giving me the same thrill and joy that I get when I mount my negatives on the enlarger, and dive my print into the revelator. |
+10
I also get so much more pleasure from BW film work than digital. I've been emptying out all the junk from my old darkroom, eventually I'll make enough space in there I can put an enlarger in there again _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Hood
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 469 Location: Perth, Australia
Expire: 2013-09-16
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hood wrote:
I was doing a bit of a quick little write up about this new Leica M9-M for my blog, when it occurred to me that I had seen great B&W images previously from owners of Leica M8′s and M9′s. I wondered if these were all just post processing conversions done in Photoshop. So after doing a bit of a google around I came across articles on forums from Leica M8 and M9 users raving about the vintage B&W setting in the camera and the files they got from using it. They also all reported much higher usable ISO’s.
Here are some examples of the great in camera B&W from the M8 that I found they had shared:
http://www.e-mager.com/blog/files/7caa1f3ab9c5479556148d0809997c6c-4.html
http://www.e-mager.com/images/m8/L1021483.jpg
and here is a whole folder of work done in this setting on the M9 by Alex Es:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexes/5867917565/in/photostream/
I find it interesting how similar the rendering seems… _________________
-Josh
Currently shooting:
Digital:Sony Nex-5, Nex-5n, Pentax KX, Pentax K30 and Fuji JZ100
Film: Minolta x700, Contax 137MD, Chinon Memotron, Minolta 500si, Minolta 700si, Canon Ex-auto, Minolta 35DL weathermatic, Pentax espio 738, Minolta Himatic-G, Olympus Trip 35, Elixa Reflex-B, Pentax MZ-60
Lens Collection:Slr Magic 28/2.8, Slr Magic 35/1.7, Minolta Rokkor 45/2, Minolta Rokkor 50/1.4, Minolta W-Rokkor-sg 28/3.5, Minolta 35-70/3.5, Minolta Rokkor-PF 55/1.9, Minolta W.Rokkor 28/3.5, Monolta MD 50/2*2, Minolta 50/1.7, Minolta zealox bellows, Minolta e.Rokkor 75/4.5, Sony 18-55 3.5/5.6, Sony 16/2.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 55/1.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 50/1.5, Meyer Gerlitz Dimoplan 50/2.8,Meyer Gerlitz Orestegon 50/1.8, Tamron 35/2.8, Tamron 70-220/4, Tamron aspherical 28-200 3.8-5.6, Seimar 28/2.8, Aus Jena Tessar 50/2.8, Industar 50/3.5, Industar 26m 50/2.8, Industar 61 55/2.8, Industar 69 28/2.8, Carenar 45/2.8, Pentacon electric 50/1.8, Pentacon 30/3.5, Pentacon 29/2.8, Helios 44m 58/2, Miida 35/2.8, Miida 75-205/3.8, Cosina 28/2.8, Kenlock 135/2.8, Kenlock 35/2.8, Kenlock Mc-tor 28/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2, Vivitar 28-85 3.5-4.5 macro, Vivitar 28-80 3.5-5.6 macro, Exacta 35-70 3.5-4.8 macro, Sigma 35-70 2.8-4, Sigma 100-200 4.5, SamYong 18-28 4-4.5, Photax-Pharagon 35/2.8, Travenar 35/2.8, Travenar 50/1.8, Tokina 70-210 4-5.6, Tokina 28/2.8, Promura 200/3.5, Sirius 20-200 3.9, Soligor 200/3.5, Canon FL 50/1.8, Canon FD 35-70 3.5-4.5, Auto Focal 75-200/4.5, Zenit Zenitar 50/2,Tokina353 35-300mm(KX), Pentax 18-55(KX), Pentax 35-80(KX), Sigma 14mm F2.8(KX), Sigma 70-200mm(KX), Sigma 24-70mm(KX), Pentax 35-135 macro(KX), plus I have a few in for service right now and I'm always collecting more...
It's been a few years now, I need to sit down and update this list...it has grown considerably! haha
My Blog:
http://www.joshpereraphoto.com/
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
thats a good point josh. when i was using the high iso deficient ep2, i often shot in b&w because i got a couple of extra useable stops...there is a certain amount of 'IQ' advantage one gets friom any digi cam shooting b&w.
tony _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about the name.
That cam is not called "Leica M9 Monochrom" but "Leica M Monochrom", although it is based on the M9. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
The new monochrome has visibly higher resolution and visibly better high ISO than the M9-P
.
Resolution looks like large format My NEX-5N looks like sh*t against that.
Watch that in 100% view!
http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/file/download.php?filename=file_6707.JPG
Way better than Silver Efex B/W conversions or
But 8000$ are indeed to high for my taste
This is a camera for professionals _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You must have special eyes, the difference in resolution is very hard to see, not surprised it has better higher iso performance as the M9 is not good in that regard and the missing colour filter means more light gets to the sensor.
I still think the difference between a BW shot from this and a conversion are so small they will only be apparent when pixel peeping (meaningless in the real world) or if you print very large, and 18mp isn't enough to get very large anyways.
We're talking a lot of money for very little improvement indeed. I could perhaps forgive the huge price tag more if Leica had actually improved the camera in other ways, an unarticulated 230k screen is ludicrous on a camera that costs this much, you can buy a 200eu Samsung with a 930k fully articulated screen... _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
You must have special eyes, the difference in resolution is very hard to see, not surprised it has better higher iso performance as the M9 is not good in that regard and the missing colour filter means more light gets to the sensor.
I still think the difference between a BW shot from this and a conversion are so small they will only be apparent when pixel peeping (meaningless in the real world) or if you print very large, and 18mp isn't enough to get very large anyways.
We're talking a lot of money for very little improvement indeed. I could perhaps forgive the huge price tag more if Leica had actually improved the camera in other ways, an unarticulated 230k screen is ludicrous on a camera that costs this much, you can buy a 200eu Samsung with a 930k fully articulated screen... |
+1 _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Well, I don't have the new camera so I can not make a direct comparison, but I know my M9 and it surely can produce
an image with this detail if I stop my Biogon 2/35 down to f/8
And I don't have the most resolving lenses for M mount, my Biogon 2/35 excels in many aspects but it's not the most resolving lens
you can find for M mount.
So I feel that this claim that the M9 Monochrome has "visibly higher resolution" than the M9 does not convince me based on this image,
I need much more demonstrated evidence for that.
About the high ISO, it would be really a wonder if it was not better in the monochrome camera, all animals including man "switch" (so to say) to monochrome in order to improve the night vision. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Whole image:
100% crops:
The M9 monochrome will have to visibly (i.e. with simple eye vision and no measuring instrument) beat this level of detail
(using my same lens Biogon 2/35) to support the claim that it has "visibly better resolution" than the M9. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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trifox
Joined: 14 May 2008 Posts: 3614 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-05-29
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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trifox wrote:
I would leave discussion regarding 8K USD price for someone else
STEVHUFF's examples? I think they're pretty cool, I must admit.
...gradation curves, chemicals, papers, developers bla bla ...
too much stuff to use, too much time to spent plus impact on environment.
Looking at the pictures taken with Leica Monochrom - the gradation is quite cool.
It definitely looks different from a common digital and following PP.
One really interesting comment on Steve Huff's site is that a user of M9 is saying he wouldn't buy it because of this:
...it won’t make me a better photographer and I doubt anyone would ever be able to tell the difference at normal print sizes between the two.
We live in a digital era and there's no time for developing film, right?
So, the question is - are we really missing our lovely grain on pictures?
I think that film still remains 'better' regarding grain.
but from a pre-press operator's (or photshop retoucher) point of view:
grain is not a benefit - you would hate a grain on your pictures when editing them in photoshop.
i.e. - grain was extremely a bad issue in printing industry until digital came over here
I do remember when we discussed all these issues with photographers regarding grain;
they hated (photographers) a grain on pics, we hated (retouchers) a grain on scans
who liked a grain on pictures? - to be honest, no one.
well - one of the first digital pictures were totally funny and unusable
but nowadays - we trying to re-create and imitate a grain with digital cameras - oh no!
Because some love it? Retro?
Rich people want to see nice GRAINY PICS in their wedding albums trying to explain their friends:
'Look, we've got pics taken with Leica Mono. They're so nice, aren't they?'
...and people around want to have the same pics in their albums
Is this is a purpose?
We are moving backwards ..
People hated grain even ISO 400 looked pretty nasty sometimes..
Now? ISO400 is nothing to certain digital cameras
If I were about to create some sort of grain on my pictures - I would use a film camera and not a digital sensor.
Grain on film is natural and it can be very nasty.
tf _________________ Flickr.com |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I see no problem in liking grain, but to people who do, I always say "shoot film" instead of adding fake grain in Exposure or Silver FX Pro.
No problem with any position in general, but it's important from all sides not to underestimate and not to overestimate either.
If I had 8000 Eur I would be very happy to buy a M Monochrome, but I would not feel urge to justify the expense by making exaggerated positive reports.
I would buy it just because I like it and it would not feel diminishing to me if I wasn't able to demonstrate that it resolves visibly more than a normal M9, unless it wasn't true.
On the other side, I don't have the money for an M Monochrome but this would not push me to say that it's wasted money and grossly overpriced etc. etc.
The product is there, people who have the money can buy it, people who don't can buy something lesser, we live in a competitors' market so if the M Monochrome (or M9 for that matter)
is largely overpriced as someone says, then it would be easy for the competitor manufacturers to produce the same camera at a largely inferior price.
If they don't, then maybe it's a reason for the critical ones to start thinking that maybe it isn't as easy as it seems, and that the camera is not really overpriced after all.
In the end, just enjoy the tools that you have, I have an M9 and am super happy of it, but this does not prevent me from enjoying a lot doing and printing my own B&W film with equipment
that is largely inferior in price and quality to the M9. This shows that enjoying photography is not reserved to those who can buy an M9 or a M Monochrome.
End of the story, for me. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
On the higher resolution thing, don't forget it's the same sensor, they just removed the colour filter, that one small change means that the resolution cannot be more than a small fraction better, to be much better resolution it would have to have a better sensor. The improvement is merely that gained from not having a filter. So why is it more expensive than an M-9? I can't see any reason for it to be more expensive, surely it should be the same price as it is the same camera after all, just got a couple of minor tweaks. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
On the higher resolution thing, don't forget it's the same sensor, they just removed the colour filter, ... |
Leica claim that its not the same sensor and that they had to carry out a lot of new engineering at the chip level.
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that one small change means that the resolution cannot be more than a small fraction better, |
Well...assuming that the sensor in the Monochrom is at least very similar to that in the M9, and assuming that resolution is solely determined by the green pixels in the M9, then when the Bayer array is removed from the M9 to give the Monochrom, the number of pixels determining the resolution is doubled. Therefore the resolution is increased by 100%. Right ? Leica certainly tells us that the resolution is increased by that amount.
An alternative view is to look at the pixel spacing. If the nearest neighbour green pixel spacing in the M9 is unity then the spacing in the Monochrom is ~0.7. Alternatively putting the pixel spacing in the Monochrom at unity then the green-green spacing in the M9 is ~1.4. So the difference between the two sensors is 30 or 40 % -depending on which way you look at it. In any case a small amount - as you suggest.
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... to be much better resolution it would have to have a better sensor. |
Agreed.
Quote: |
The improvement is merely that gained from not having a filter. So why is it more expensive than an M-9? I can't see any reason for it to be more expensive, surely it should be the same price as it is the same camera after all, just got a couple of minor tweaks. |
There might be a reason. All sensors are expected to have hot or dead pixels. Apparently it's more difficult to deal with these on a monochrome sensor than on a Bayer sensor. That's the explanation given by LuLa for the greater expense of the Phase One monochrome back - relative to the colour version.
BTW The depreview preview of this camera tells us that the colour space of the sensor is hardwired sRGB. Anyone know what that means ? _________________ John |
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