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Ilford PanF 50 ISO
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Ilford PanF 50 ISO Reply with quote
I just picked up a 100-foot roll of Ilford 50 ISO PanF from Adorama (a lot of places have been out of stock on this for a month or more.) Anyway, I'll be shooting it in a couple weeks and I need some developing tips. The chart on my powdered developer bag only shows how to develop 100, 400, and 800 ISO. Has anyone developed 50 ISO Ilford before?

My chemicals are D-76 or Dektol, depending on if I have enough D-76 left. Standard Kodak fixer wit hardener.

David


PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did it with Rodinal and my result was pretty crap. So this set is surely wrong.

http://forum.mflenses.com/ilford-iso-50-nikon-fa-nikkor-20mm-f2-8-ais-fomadon-r09-t40225,highlight,+ilford++pan.html


PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So I've been surfing the Internet for this today because it's my last week with this company before I start a new job, so I'm billing a ton of time to 'futzing around on the Internet' this week. Anyway, I found an Ilford technical document that says developing time with D-76 at 68 degrees is 15 minutes. Shocked WHAAAAAAAAAAT? I need to stand at my kitchen sink rotating this thing every sixty seconds for the better part of a 30 Rock episode?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did just this combo, and I wish... oh wait, my chemistry box is right here at work... let me check... Pan F Plus / D-76 1:1 @20C = 8.5min. Stock, 6.5min. Same numbers for ID-11 and digitaltruth I believe has the same number as well, oops, for ID-11 only, for D-76 they show 10.5min for asa "25-50".

Given my workflow: look at the printed chart first,
then look for manufacturer, then the massive dev chart, I believe I developed the 8.5min. Came out looking fine (it was 120 film)...

this is the chart I use:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006216122447.pdf


PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
David wrote:
So I've been surfing the Internet for this today because it's my last week with this company before I start a new job, so I'm billing a ton of time to 'futzing around on the Internet' this week. Anyway, I found an Ilford technical document that says developing time with D-76 at 68 degrees is 15 minutes. Shocked WHAAAAAAAAAAT? I need to stand at my kitchen sink rotating this thing every sixty seconds for the better part of a 30 Rock episode?


Laughing I am a lazy guy sometimes, I agitate only at every 2-3 minutes or I bring it with me to my computer desk and rotate it there , instead of stand up in kitchen for long minutes.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jussi, how do I tell which mix I'm using? The developer I use is a .8=liter bag mixed with 3 liters water to make a U.S. gallon. So I assumed that was the 1+3 mix. Is that assumption incorrect?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, ok then. I've always been taught to mix D-76 full strength for storage, and to dilute it for one-shot use. If you used a 1 l mix to make 3 l of developer, yes, you have 1:3, and should use those times.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
David, seriously, see if you can get yourself some Ilfotec LC29 developer. I'm very impressed with it. I find PanF touchy to get right and my attempt with ID-11 came out with way too much contrast. I've been trying to find an example to show you, but I think I must have deleted the scans, they were that bad. LC29 hasn't let me down and it takes just 5½ minutes in 1+29 mix.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
I did it with Rodinal and my result was pretty crap. So this set is surely wrong.

http://forum.mflenses.com/ilford-iso-50-nikon-fa-nikkor-20mm-f2-8-ais-fomadon-r09-t40225,highlight,+ilford++pan.html


I would never use Rodinal with such low ISO high detail film.
Better to use Perceptol or T-Max


PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Peter, you always have fun challenges for me. I'll check and see what I can find. This is SF and a lot of people here still shoot film. There ought to be one or two formularies somewhere in the Bay Area.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got great results using 1:50 Rodinal and followed the `Massive Development Chart' recommendations on time and gave minimal agitation. It's a high contrast film, so develope to get lower contrast and you'll be fine.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

I would never use Rodinal with such low ISO high detail film.


That's what I am guessing to remember from my long time gone developing time.

Klaus


PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Attila wrote:
I did it with Rodinal and my result was pretty crap. So this set is surely wrong.

http://forum.mflenses.com/ilford-iso-50-nikon-fa-nikkor-20mm-f2-8-ais-fomadon-r09-t40225,highlight,+ilford++pan.html


I would never use Rodinal with such low ISO high detail film.
Better to use Perceptol or T-Max


ISO 25 ORWO did work very well with 1:50 Rodinal , due I didn't get huge success with any Ilford film, I think your suggestion is better to any Ilford film.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rodinal 1:50 and Pan-F


Canonet_Ilford-Pan-F_031 by martinsmith99, on Flickr


Spotmatic_Pan-F_21 by martinsmith99, on Flickr


Rocking Chair by martinsmith99, on Flickr

Last edited by martinsmith99 on Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:54 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exaklaus wrote:
Orio wrote:

I would never use Rodinal with such low ISO high detail film.


That's what I am guessing to remember from my long time gone developing time.

Klaus


Yes, to get the most out of a 50 ISO film, you need a high acutance developer,
and Rodinal simply is not.
So you may get "ok" result if developed properly, but never "wow" results.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
exaklaus wrote:
Orio wrote:

I would never use Rodinal with such low ISO high detail film.


That's what I am guessing to remember from my long time gone developing time.

Klaus


Yes, to get the most out of a 50 ISO film, you need a high acutance developer,
and Rodinal simply is not.

Yes it is high actuence!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodinal

"Rodinal is not a fine-grain developer, and is best used with film of low and medium sensitivity, with inherently finer grain than high-speed films."


PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Rodinal 1:50 and Pan-F

Wow, the range of tones in those pictures is better than I've ever achieved with PanF, Martin. Well done.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote:
Rodinal 1:50 and Pan-F

Wow, the range of tones in those pictures is better than I've ever achieved with PanF, Martin. Well done.

Thanks Peter - But it's probably more luck than judgement that I hit upon what I consider successful development. I give 10 secs inversions at the start and 2 inversions every minute.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been following this thread pretty closely. I found two shops in the SF area that MIGHT be able to get LC 29. Being that I'm prone to sporadic good luck, one is five miles from my home and one is about six blocks from the job I start next week.

But Martin, your comment about inversions is curious. So when you begin developing film you invert and rotate the tank ten times and then do two more inversions and rotations each minute, am I reading correctly? I was taught to rotate for the first minute then for ten seconds at the beginning of each subsequent minute. That works out to (typically) about 40 rotations at the start and seven at each minute mark. Is that too many inversions? Can film be over agitated?


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
David wrote:
Can film be over agitated?

I'm watching the answers to that. It seems to me that simply keeping the developer moving gently is probably a good thing - or at least it wouldn't do much harm - but continuously inverting the tank means the film is out of the liquid for at least 50% of the time.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have to own up to making a silly mistake the other day. For once I made up both cylinders of developer and stop before starting, and would you believe it, I picked up the wrong one and poured the stop in first. Well, it gave the film a pre-soak at least! I washed out the tank and the film inside it with running water for about half an hour amd started again. I was sure I'd ruined the film. So this is Arista II 100 in Ilfotec LC29 1+29 for 9 minutes @ 20C, with presoak of Ilfostop 1+19 Smile

#1


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
David wrote:
But Martin, your comment about inversions is curious. So when you begin developing film you invert and rotate the tank ten times and then do two more inversions and rotations each minute, am I reading correctly? I was taught to rotate for the first minute then for ten seconds at the beginning of each subsequent minute. That works out to (typically) about 40 rotations at the start and seven at each minute mark. Is that too many inversions? Can film be over agitated?

Inverting/agitating will increase contrast (bringing fresh developer in contact with the film). I only use 2-4 inversions at the start of each minute with any film and 10-30 seconds at the start depending on what I'm trying to achieve.

For Pan-F:
weak developer mix (for lower contrast)
pour the developer mix in and start the timer
fully inverting and returning for 10 secs
each minute, 2 inversions

Increasing the amount and frequency of inversions increases contrast, as will a stronger developer mix. As Pan-F is high contrast already there's no need for me to increase it. I can always add contrast later, but it's hard to reduce it once the negs are developed.

I don't ever presoak my films as this is not necessary with one shot developers. There are many threads about this and no evidence to suggest it does anything (other than diluting the developer further).


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Ilford PanF 50 ISO Reply with quote
David wrote:
I just picked up a 100-foot roll of Ilford 50 ISO PanF from Adorama (a lot of places have been out of stock on this for a month or more.) Anyway, I'll be shooting it in a couple weeks and I need some developing tips. The chart on my powdered developer bag only shows how to develop 100, 400, and 800 ISO. Has anyone developed 50 ISO Ilford before?

My chemicals are D-76 or Dektol, depending on if I have enough D-76 left. Standard Kodak fixer wit hardener.

David


Try D-76 1:1 for 5 minutes, no more, for the first trial.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:

I would never use Rodinal with such low ISO high detail film.
Better to use Perceptol or T-Max



Yes ...It is beautiful in Perceptol, however the ISO drops to ISO25, due to the lack of compensation.

In which case, it is a beautiful film at ISO25 (why do people bother to shoot it at ISO50, then complain that it is too contrasty?). At ISO25, Rodinal brings out its acutance without golfball grain very well. It has its own particular look, which is as close as you can get to APX25 with Rodinal these days, unless you're very gifted Laughing

Tmax developer hasn't really offered any advantages over Microphen (which allows Pan F+ to be shot at a true ISO50 speed with fine grain). It's good to have a fine grain developer (like Perceptol) and an acutance developer (like Rodinal) mastered, so that you can select which look for your prints you like. Once you master two, then you might want to try something radical like Paterson FX39 (an acutance and a fine grain developer) or perhaps, Pyrogallol (an acutance; a fine grain, and a staining developer). There are a lot of wishy-washy in-between developers which offer no real original characteristics (like D-11 or D76 or HC110 - all from Kodak lol) but are very easy to use for those who have never attempted to do manual dishwashing Wink
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