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Chromatic aberrations terminology
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:17 am    Post subject: Chromatic aberrations terminology Reply with quote

It looks like I've been using the wrong terms to refer to some types of color fringing. But looking around, I'm still confused about what the proper terms should be.

Here is the set of fringing I am aware of and the terms I usually find it referred as:

- color fringing in high contrast areas, usually referred to as purple fringing (I'm sure I got this right). Usually purple, but I have a lens which likes to produce blue. On older lenses I see a worse version of it that I can only describe as purple blooming - it's not a simple fringe, but a blooming one Smile. Can happen anywhere in the frame and stopping down usually minimizes it. Seems to also fall under the category of longitudinal chromatic aberrations, although that term seems to apply to more than purple fringing and it doesn't cover all reasons contributing to PF. Seems to be an issue with all focal lengths and particularly annoying in inexpensive telephotos.

- color fringing relative to the focal plane: green behind and red/purple in front. Not sure how this is called - it's referred to as bokeh fringing by photozone (I used to think incorrectly that it's called longitudinal chromatic aberrations). I see this on most fast lenses when used wide open. Most fast macro lenses also display this at apertures such as f/2.8. Fringing color is relative to focal plane and stopping down minimizes the effect. Annoying in portraits when missing focus on eyes because highlights will look either green or red.

- color fringing of purple/green variety which is more pronounced towards the edges of the frame. Fringing is also more pronounced if edges are tangential rather than radial. Seems to be called lateral chromatic aberration and I see this usually in fisheyes and wideangles, not so much in longer focal lengths.

Have I got this right? Any corrections or additions? Hopefully, we can make this thread a nice reference on this topic.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Laurentiu! Thanks for posting.

I would like to know what flare in highlights that causes similar color-fringing to CA is called. I say 'bloom'; there must be more technical term. Maybe flare covers it?

OF course we may begin with wikipedia infos.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definetly will always watch this thread. And I'm wait for picture samples Very Happy
'Coz it give more explanation to me as my english is poor


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1

I'm so confused about that whole colourful mess: LoCA, PP, etc.

I hope some one (like Orio, Arkuu, Chris, etc.) would give a nice explanation.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I went through my shots and I extracted some samples for the categories of color fringing I listed before. These are all unprocessed 100% crops and I kept them small on purpose so you don't have to scroll forever just to watch CA samples Smile


Bokeh fringing (edit: aka longitudinal chromatic aberrations=LoCA)

This shows as green fringing behind focal plane (upper part) and purple-reddish fringing in front of it (lower part). They disappear in the focal plane, but DOF is really thin in these shots.

Super Takumar 50/1.4


Pentax FA 100-300/4.7-5.8


This is from the same shot as above, but from behind the focus plane, to show the green fringing in its splendor:


And another shot - green on the sand above, purple on the insect leg below:


Cosina 55/1.2@f/4

[Edit note: 2011/12/06 - I used to think this is purple fringing, but it's actually bokeh fringing (LoCA) in front of the focal plane:]



Lateral chromatic aberrations

This is worse towards the edges.

Samyang 8/3.5 fisheye

Upper-left corner shows a lot:


But center looks very good:



Purple fringing

[Edit note: 2013/05/13 - I now realized all these samples also fall under LoCA - I don't really have any example of purple fringing.]

I left the worse for last. I hate this. Keep in mind that these are very mild samples - I usually don't keep shots in which PF is worse than this, so I can't show you the peak of this abomination.

Tamron adaptall SP 60-300/3.8-5.4 (edit: This actually looks worse because of a WB issue - the BBAR coating of Tamron adaptall lenses is confusing the AWB feature of modern cameras with the effect of accentuating purplish tints)


Tamron adaptall SP 300/5.6

Note that this also shows bokeh fringing on the wings:


Surprisingly, the SP 60-300 zoom seems to have less PF than the SP 300 prime. One for the zooms I guess.

Of course, at 100% we're pixel peeping, but this is not about criticizing lenses, only about showing samples of aberrations manifesting themselves as color fringing.

Hope this helps. And please correct me if I'm wrong in the labeling.

[Edit note: 2011/12/06 - the original PentaxForums urls for the images had changed, so I updated this post with the current ones. I also made a few corrections and additions marked as edits based on my current evaluation of this subject.]

[Edit note: 2013/05/13 - PentaxForums keeps changing the urls. In case they keep changing, here is the folder where all the samples are available: http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/21910-laurentiu-cristofor/albums/2119-color-fringing-samples/]


Last edited by Laurentiu Cristofor on Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 pm; edited 5 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you got this right (from my amateur perspective).
I would add that the third variety is the classic aberration, because it appears within the plane of focus.

The first is the most controversially discussed one. Some say that it is a lens-only issue; some say it is a sensor-only issue, but most probably it is a combination of both. The lens is definitely involved. Someone from Zeiss told me that it has to do with the UV (and to a lesser degree IR) parts of the light that are not completely suppressed. Normally they are enough suppressed to not contribute to the image, but if the light intensity is extremely high even 0.1% becomes visible. Since the optical system is not perfectly corrected for UV light, it is slightly out of focus and creates the colored borders.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I repeat, I am no phisicist, but I am convinced that it is wrong to say that you can speak of chromatic aberration only when an object is in focus.
I will look for the opinion of a knowledgeable person.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you blende8! I think you are correct here to identify and include UV factor. The "haze" that cannot be seen with eyes but appears in photos, which is reduced by using "UV/Haze" filter. This may also be cause of 'flare bloom' I described in earlier post.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blende8 wrote:

The first is the most controversially discussed one. Some say that it is a lens-only issue; some say it is a sensor-only issue, but most probably it is a combination of both. The lens is definitely involved.


I agree that the lens design matters. I find this in almost all old lenses, in a higher degree than for modern lenses. But even for old lenses, they're not all the same. Russian lenses, for example, are pretty good in this area - I can only see some PF in the longer focal lengths at wide apertures. For modern lenses, the Tamron 70-300 is a well known producer of PF. But even this lens is a bit of a puzzle for me because in some days, I can't get the PF to show up even when I'm trying. I think it has something to do with the light too, but I haven't figured it out yet.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:

I would like to know what flare in highlights that causes similar color-fringing to CA is called. I say 'bloom'; there must be more technical term. Maybe flare covers it?

OF course we may begin with wikipedia infos.


Do you have a shot showing such flare? Are you referring to the fringing on the edge of oof highlights?

Wikipedia is good but it doesn't discuss bokeh fringing and only has samples illustrating PF.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a sample of sensor bloom
it appear only where the sensor is overcharged (overexposed),
it is called sensor bloom because it doesn't appear on negative who cannot get overcharged



PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
I repeat, I am no phisicist, but I am convinced that it is wrong to say that you can speak of chromatic aberration only when an object is in focus.
I will look for the opinion of a knowledgeable person.

From a practical perspective it is not important how one is calling it.
Since it is basically the same physical phenomenon, you may continue calling it CA.
I think that the definition is due to the old times where it was completely impossible to eliminate CAs outside the focal plane.
Even today it is extremely difficult to correct this. It is possible to a certain extent, but it needs very expensive glass and only the most expensive lenses profit from it.
I know that the Nikon 200/2.0 is one such lens. Probably some Leica APO lenses, too.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article also has some good samples and descriptions: http://toothwalker.org/optics/chromatic.html. Interesting description for LoCA. I don't seem to have experienced that too often - i.e. purple fringing that can turn into green fringing if focused slightly differently (see first samples).

poilu - thanks for the sample of sensor bloom. I suppose the center of the lights is overexposed and that's why it comes out white instead of showing the glass color. Which lens took that shot?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:


This shows as green fringing behind focal plane (upper part) and purple-reddish fringing in front of it (lower part). They disappear in the focal plane, but DOF is really thin in these shots.

Super Takumar 50/1.4


i had recently noticed this with my Super Takumar 50/1.4 as well. i don't know much about CA, so this topic is definitely a good place to start. thanks for the info!


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poilu wrote:
a sample of sensor bloom
it appear only where the sensor is overcharged (overexposed),
it is called sensor bloom because it doesn't appear on negative who cannot get overcharged


Were those taken with a camera with CCD sensor? CMOS sensors don't bloom.

Explanation of CCD blooming: http://dpanswers.com/content/tech_defects.php#bloom


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhamB wrote:
poilu wrote:
a sample of sensor bloom
it appear only where the sensor is overcharged (overexposed),
it is called sensor bloom because it doesn't appear on negative who cannot get overcharged


Were those taken with a camera with CCD sensor? CMOS sensors don't bloom.

Explanation of CCD blooming: http://dpanswers.com/content/tech_defects.php#bloom

on a cmos
hey, your link tell the exact opposite of my explanation Laughing


PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some really good links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_(optics)#Aberrations

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/geoopt/aberrcon.html

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/physics/optics/Optical/Lens/Lens.htm

http://wps.aw.com/wps/media/objects/877/898586/topics/topic12.pdf

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/430511/optics/37971/Lens-aberrations


PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courtesy of the publisher, John Wiley & Sons, Inc., a couple of complete chapters from the 6-volume multi-K$US bible of lens design, in pdf!.

Chapter 29 "Aberrations": http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/95/35274037/3527403795.pdf

Chapter 36 "Human Eye": http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/09/35274038/3527403809.pdf

Lots of mathematics, lots of optical physics, lots of colorful illustrations!

(re-post. with forum search broken I can't find original Embarassed)


PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked over most of these links and they don't cover chromatic aberrations in particular, neither do they have practical examples. What I want to know is what the different types of fringing are called.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology Reply with quote

Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:

- color fringing in high contrast areas, usually referred to as purple fringing (I'm sure I got this right). Usually purple, but I have a lens which likes to produce blue. On older lenses I see a worse version of it that I can only describe as purple blooming - it's not a simple fringe, but a blooming one Smile. Can happen anywhere in the frame and stopping down usually minimizes it. Seems to also fall under the category of longitudinal chromatic aberrations, although that term seems to apply to more than purple fringing and it doesn't cover all reasons contributing to PF. Seems to be an issue with all focal lengths and particularly annoying in inexpensive telephotos.


This is probably a complex phenomenon with no single cause, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing

Quote:
- color fringing relative to the focal plane: green behind and red/purple in front.


This can also be the other way around, depending on whether the lens is over or under corrected.

For a decent although not exhaustive explanation of chromatic aberration see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration

Veijo


PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blende8 wrote:

I think that the definition is due to the old times where it was completely impossible to eliminate CAs outside the focal plane.
Even today it is extremely difficult to correct this. It is possible to a certain extent, but it needs very expensive glass and only the most expensive lenses profit from it.
I know that the Nikon 200/2.0 is one such lens. Probably some Leica APO lenses, too.


For whatever the reason, some of my very old lenses (80 - 100 yrs old) are in a way at least as good in this respect as my Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 4/180. Even when viewed at 100%, it is often well nigh impossible to find any indication of meaningful OOF CA. The lower speed, the lower contrast and the somewhat higher spherical aberration of these lenses may explain this phenomenon, but as far as practical photography is concerned, these lenses are free enough of CA, in or out of focus.

If you look very carefully at http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_al180_files/al7790.jpg, taken with the APO-Lanthar, you can see just a hint of OOF CA, but as far as that CA is concerned, the differences with http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/cooke_files/ca7930.jpg taken with a 1917 TTH Series II Cooke Anastigmat 5 1/2 inch f/4.5 are rather minimal. NB. the photo with the uncoated Cooke has been taken without a lens shade, and the contrast hasn't been adjusted.

Veijo


PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology Reply with quote

vilva wrote:

This is probably a complex phenomenon with no single cause, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing


Yes, but it's worth discussing it in more detail than Wikipedia does.

For example, I can hardly remember an old MF Japanese lens that doesn't have problems with PF. And the problem is worse than with modern lenses like the Tamron 70-300 where the fringes are better delimited - on old lenses they bloom and have soft edges. For some reason, CZJ and Russian lenses don't seem to have this issue - I've only detected some PF on the longer focal lengths at wide apertures (135@2.8, 200@4), but the issue disappears when stopping down (maybe this is similar to what you've noticed for your old lenses). I'm also not able to figure out precisely how to make PF appear. In some days, with the Tamron 70-300, I get it all the time, in other days, I don't get it even though I am trying to force it to show up. I haven't yet figured out the exact recipe. It's not just about strong light and high contrast areas.

So I'd be more interested in direct experience and observations than in links to wikipedia - I've looked over those and they just collect a bunch of factors, but don't tell how they interact. Plus those articles raise questions that don't get answered there. For example, UV and IR are mentioned, but AFAIK, digital camera sensors aren't sensitive to UV - that's why UV filters are unnecessary. And sensors have a filter to cut out IR - whatever IR is left shouldn't make differences between one lens and another. Why are some lenses more vulnerable to PF than others?


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology Reply with quote

Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:

- color fringing relative to the focal plane: green behind and red/purple in front. Not sure how this is called - it's referred to as bokeh fringing by photozone (I used to think incorrectly that it's called longitudinal chromatic aberrations).


Well, it looks like longitudinal chromatic aberrations may indeed be the correct name for bokeh fringing. Here's a lengthy article on lens testing:

http://www.ronmartblog.com/2011/06/guest-blog-how-to-test-camera-lens-by.html

that includes this description:

Quote:
One other thing to check with a wide aperture lens is spherochromatism (also called secondary longitudinal chromatic aberration or longitudinal color shift).


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology Reply with quote

The original samples have disappeared for some reason - you can still find them here though:

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/laurentiu-cristofor-albums-color-fringing-samples.html

I just wanted to add an errata - I was reminded of it in a recent thread: the Cosina sample is actually not PF, but LoCA - I examined more carefully the images and realized it only showed in front of the focal plane and that it changed to green fringing after that. The PF examples using Tamron are good though.

I collected my recent thoughts on this topic here:

http://laurphoto.blogspot.com/2011/11/chromatic-aberrations.html


PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

color fringing can be caused by coma or by longitudinal chromatic aberrations (German: Farblängsfehler).

The first should be quite easy to correct for an optical designer. The latter isn't that easy. First, you have to correct the errors with objects in focus, but that don't mean that the objects out of focus are corrected as well. With a zoom lens this is quite impossible.

If you don't have any color fringing it's probably an apochromatic corrected lens.