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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: Chromatic aberrations terminology |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
It looks like I've been using the wrong terms to refer to some types of color fringing. But looking around, I'm still confused about what the proper terms should be.
Here is the set of fringing I am aware of and the terms I usually find it referred as:
- color fringing in high contrast areas, usually referred to as purple fringing (I'm sure I got this right). Usually purple, but I have a lens which likes to produce blue. On older lenses I see a worse version of it that I can only describe as purple blooming - it's not a simple fringe, but a blooming one . Can happen anywhere in the frame and stopping down usually minimizes it. Seems to also fall under the category of longitudinal chromatic aberrations, although that term seems to apply to more than purple fringing and it doesn't cover all reasons contributing to PF. Seems to be an issue with all focal lengths and particularly annoying in inexpensive telephotos.
- color fringing relative to the focal plane: green behind and red/purple in front. Not sure how this is called - it's referred to as bokeh fringing by photozone (I used to think incorrectly that it's called longitudinal chromatic aberrations). I see this on most fast lenses when used wide open. Most fast macro lenses also display this at apertures such as f/2.8. Fringing color is relative to focal plane and stopping down minimizes the effect. Annoying in portraits when missing focus on eyes because highlights will look either green or red.
- color fringing of purple/green variety which is more pronounced towards the edges of the frame. Fringing is also more pronounced if edges are tangential rather than radial. Seems to be called lateral chromatic aberration and I see this usually in fisheyes and wideangles, not so much in longer focal lengths.
Have I got this right? Any corrections or additions? Hopefully, we can make this thread a nice reference on this topic. _________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10973 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:38 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Great Laurentiu! Thanks for posting.
I would like to know what flare in highlights that causes similar color-fringing to CA is called. I say 'bloom'; there must be more technical term. Maybe flare covers it?
OF course we may begin with wikipedia infos. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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IAZA
Joined: 16 Apr 2010 Posts: 2587 Location: Indonesia
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: |
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IAZA wrote:
I definetly will always watch this thread. And I'm wait for picture samples
'Coz it give more explanation to me as my english is poor _________________ nex5, Olympus EPM1, yashica half 14, Canon eos 650 want to see samples of mine? please click My lenses
and My gallery
~Suat~ |
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bogolisk
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 448
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:30 am Post subject: |
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bogolisk wrote:
+1
I'm so confused about that whole colourful mess: LoCA, PP, etc.
I hope some one (like Orio, Arkuu, Chris, etc.) would give a nice explanation. _________________ When I try to be a photographer I manage to add an f to art. |
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
OK, I went through my shots and I extracted some samples for the categories of color fringing I listed before. These are all unprocessed 100% crops and I kept them small on purpose so you don't have to scroll forever just to watch CA samples
Bokeh fringing (edit: aka longitudinal chromatic aberrations=LoCA)
This shows as green fringing behind focal plane (upper part) and purple-reddish fringing in front of it (lower part). They disappear in the focal plane, but DOF is really thin in these shots.
Super Takumar 50/1.4
Pentax FA 100-300/4.7-5.8
This is from the same shot as above, but from behind the focus plane, to show the green fringing in its splendor:
And another shot - green on the sand above, purple on the insect leg below:
Cosina 55/1.2@f/4
[Edit note: 2011/12/06 - I used to think this is purple fringing, but it's actually bokeh fringing (LoCA) in front of the focal plane:]
Lateral chromatic aberrations
This is worse towards the edges.
Samyang 8/3.5 fisheye
Upper-left corner shows a lot:
But center looks very good:
Purple fringing
[Edit note: 2013/05/13 - I now realized all these samples also fall under LoCA - I don't really have any example of purple fringing.]
I left the worse for last. I hate this. Keep in mind that these are very mild samples - I usually don't keep shots in which PF is worse than this, so I can't show you the peak of this abomination.
Tamron adaptall SP 60-300/3.8-5.4 (edit: This actually looks worse because of a WB issue - the BBAR coating of Tamron adaptall lenses is confusing the AWB feature of modern cameras with the effect of accentuating purplish tints)
Tamron adaptall SP 300/5.6
Note that this also shows bokeh fringing on the wings:
Surprisingly, the SP 60-300 zoom seems to have less PF than the SP 300 prime. One for the zooms I guess.
Of course, at 100% we're pixel peeping, but this is not about criticizing lenses, only about showing samples of aberrations manifesting themselves as color fringing.
Hope this helps. And please correct me if I'm wrong in the labeling.
[Edit note: 2011/12/06 - the original PentaxForums urls for the images had changed, so I updated this post with the current ones. I also made a few corrections and additions marked as edits based on my current evaluation of this subject.]
[Edit note: 2013/05/13 - PentaxForums keeps changing the urls. In case they keep changing, here is the folder where all the samples are available: http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/21910-laurentiu-cristofor/albums/2119-color-fringing-samples/]
Last edited by Laurentiu Cristofor on Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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blende8
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Bremen, Germany
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:38 am Post subject: |
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blende8 wrote:
I think you got this right (from my amateur perspective).
I would add that the third variety is the classic aberration, because it appears within the plane of focus.
The first is the most controversially discussed one. Some say that it is a lens-only issue; some say it is a sensor-only issue, but most probably it is a combination of both. The lens is definitely involved. Someone from Zeiss told me that it has to do with the UV (and to a lesser degree IR) parts of the light that are not completely suppressed. Normally they are enough suppressed to not contribute to the image, but if the light intensity is extremely high even 0.1% becomes visible. Since the optical system is not perfectly corrected for UV light, it is slightly out of focus and creates the colored borders. _________________ Best wishes, Wieland
K-1, K-5IIs
Pentax, mysterium quod absconditum fuit ... |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I repeat, I am no phisicist, but I am convinced that it is wrong to say that you can speak of chromatic aberration only when an object is in focus.
I will look for the opinion of a knowledgeable person. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10973 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Thank you blende8! I think you are correct here to identify and include UV factor. The "haze" that cannot be seen with eyes but appears in photos, which is reduced by using "UV/Haze" filter. This may also be cause of 'flare bloom' I described in earlier post. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
blende8 wrote: |
The first is the most controversially discussed one. Some say that it is a lens-only issue; some say it is a sensor-only issue, but most probably it is a combination of both. The lens is definitely involved. |
I agree that the lens design matters. I find this in almost all old lenses, in a higher degree than for modern lenses. But even for old lenses, they're not all the same. Russian lenses, for example, are pretty good in this area - I can only see some PF in the longer focal lengths at wide apertures. For modern lenses, the Tamron 70-300 is a well known producer of PF. But even this lens is a bit of a puzzle for me because in some days, I can't get the PF to show up even when I'm trying. I think it has something to do with the light too, but I haven't figured it out yet. _________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
I would like to know what flare in highlights that causes similar color-fringing to CA is called. I say 'bloom'; there must be more technical term. Maybe flare covers it?
OF course we may begin with wikipedia infos. |
Do you have a shot showing such flare? Are you referring to the fringing on the edge of oof highlights?
Wikipedia is good but it doesn't discuss bokeh fringing and only has samples illustrating PF. _________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:17 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
a sample of sensor bloom
it appear only where the sensor is overcharged (overexposed),
it is called sensor bloom because it doesn't appear on negative who cannot get overcharged
_________________ T* |
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blende8
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Bremen, Germany
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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blende8 wrote:
Orio wrote: |
I repeat, I am no phisicist, but I am convinced that it is wrong to say that you can speak of chromatic aberration only when an object is in focus.
I will look for the opinion of a knowledgeable person. |
From a practical perspective it is not important how one is calling it.
Since it is basically the same physical phenomenon, you may continue calling it CA.
I think that the definition is due to the old times where it was completely impossible to eliminate CAs outside the focal plane.
Even today it is extremely difficult to correct this. It is possible to a certain extent, but it needs very expensive glass and only the most expensive lenses profit from it.
I know that the Nikon 200/2.0 is one such lens. Probably some Leica APO lenses, too. _________________ Best wishes, Wieland
K-1, K-5IIs
Pentax, mysterium quod absconditum fuit ... |
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
This article also has some good samples and descriptions: http://toothwalker.org/optics/chromatic.html. Interesting description for LoCA. I don't seem to have experienced that too often - i.e. purple fringing that can turn into green fringing if focused slightly differently (see first samples).
poilu - thanks for the sample of sensor bloom. I suppose the center of the lights is overexposed and that's why it comes out white instead of showing the glass color. Which lens took that shot? _________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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gearsNcogs
Joined: 20 Oct 2010 Posts: 215
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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gearsNcogs wrote:
Laurentiu Cristofor wrote: |
This shows as green fringing behind focal plane (upper part) and purple-reddish fringing in front of it (lower part). They disappear in the focal plane, but DOF is really thin in these shots.
Super Takumar 50/1.4
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i had recently noticed this with my Super Takumar 50/1.4 as well. i don't know much about CA, so this topic is definitely a good place to start. thanks for the info! _________________ Stills: SLR: Asahi Pentax Spotmatic SP, DSLR: Canon EOS Rebel XTi, Canon EOS 7D
Cine: 16mm: Krasnogorsk-3 (M42 mount) 8mm: Revere Model 88 Super 8: Bell and Howell 1235 XL Filmosonic
MF Lenses: M42: Meteor 5-1 KMZ 17-69mm 1:1,9 (Cine Only), Asahi Super Takumar 50mm 1:1.4, Focal MC 28mm 1:2.8, Tele-Lentar 135mm 1:2.8, Helios-44 KMZ 58mm 1:2, Helios-44-2 KMZ 58mm 1:2 M39: Industar-26M 50mm 1:2.8 F: Nikon Nikkor 50mm 1:1.8 EF: Lensbaby Composer f2 w/Double Glass Optic, Rokinon 35mm 1:1.4 AS UMC, Rokinon 85mm T1.5 AS IF UMC
AF Lenses: EF-S: Canon EF-S 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 II, EF: Tamron AF 70-300mm 1:4-5.6 TELE-MACRO (1:2), Canon EF 50mm 1:1.8 II
Fixed-Focus Lenses: D: Elitar 6.5mm 1:1.9, Wollensak-Revere 13mm 1:2.5 Velostigmat |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
poilu wrote: |
a sample of sensor bloom
it appear only where the sensor is overcharged (overexposed),
it is called sensor bloom because it doesn't appear on negative who cannot get overcharged |
Were those taken with a camera with CCD sensor? CMOS sensors don't bloom.
Explanation of CCD blooming: http://dpanswers.com/content/tech_defects.php#bloom |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
AhamB wrote: |
poilu wrote: |
a sample of sensor bloom
it appear only where the sensor is overcharged (overexposed),
it is called sensor bloom because it doesn't appear on negative who cannot get overcharged |
Were those taken with a camera with CCD sensor? CMOS sensors don't bloom.
Explanation of CCD blooming: http://dpanswers.com/content/tech_defects.php#bloom |
on a cmos
hey, your link tell the exact opposite of my explanation _________________ T* |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10973 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Courtesy of the publisher, John Wiley & Sons, Inc., a couple of complete chapters from the 6-volume multi-K$US bible of lens design, in pdf!.
Chapter 29 "Aberrations": http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/95/35274037/3527403795.pdf
Chapter 36 "Human Eye": http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/09/35274038/3527403809.pdf
Lots of mathematics, lots of optical physics, lots of colorful illustrations!
(re-post. with forum search broken I can't find original ) _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
I've looked over most of these links and they don't cover chromatic aberrations in particular, neither do they have practical examples. What I want to know is what the different types of fringing are called. _________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology |
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vilva wrote:
Laurentiu Cristofor wrote: |
- color fringing in high contrast areas, usually referred to as purple fringing (I'm sure I got this right). Usually purple, but I have a lens which likes to produce blue. On older lenses I see a worse version of it that I can only describe as purple blooming - it's not a simple fringe, but a blooming one . Can happen anywhere in the frame and stopping down usually minimizes it. Seems to also fall under the category of longitudinal chromatic aberrations, although that term seems to apply to more than purple fringing and it doesn't cover all reasons contributing to PF. Seems to be an issue with all focal lengths and particularly annoying in inexpensive telephotos. |
This is probably a complex phenomenon with no single cause, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing
Quote: |
- color fringing relative to the focal plane: green behind and red/purple in front. |
This can also be the other way around, depending on whether the lens is over or under corrected.
For a decent although not exhaustive explanation of chromatic aberration see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Veijo _________________ Mainly Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar (1938), VPK Meniscus Achromat (1915), TTH Cooke Anastigmat (1917), TTH Cooke Aviar (1937), Goerz Dopp-Anastigmat III Dagor (1912), Voigländer Heliar (1928) or Aldis Uno Series III (1903 design) mounted on EOS 5D or EOS 350D |
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
blende8 wrote: |
I think that the definition is due to the old times where it was completely impossible to eliminate CAs outside the focal plane.
Even today it is extremely difficult to correct this. It is possible to a certain extent, but it needs very expensive glass and only the most expensive lenses profit from it.
I know that the Nikon 200/2.0 is one such lens. Probably some Leica APO lenses, too. |
For whatever the reason, some of my very old lenses (80 - 100 yrs old) are in a way at least as good in this respect as my Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 4/180. Even when viewed at 100%, it is often well nigh impossible to find any indication of meaningful OOF CA. The lower speed, the lower contrast and the somewhat higher spherical aberration of these lenses may explain this phenomenon, but as far as practical photography is concerned, these lenses are free enough of CA, in or out of focus.
If you look very carefully at http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_al180_files/al7790.jpg, taken with the APO-Lanthar, you can see just a hint of OOF CA, but as far as that CA is concerned, the differences with http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/cooke_files/ca7930.jpg taken with a 1917 TTH Series II Cooke Anastigmat 5 1/2 inch f/4.5 are rather minimal. NB. the photo with the uncoated Cooke has been taken without a lens shade, and the contrast hasn't been adjusted.
Veijo _________________ Mainly Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar (1938), VPK Meniscus Achromat (1915), TTH Cooke Anastigmat (1917), TTH Cooke Aviar (1937), Goerz Dopp-Anastigmat III Dagor (1912), Voigländer Heliar (1928) or Aldis Uno Series III (1903 design) mounted on EOS 5D or EOS 350D |
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
Yes, but it's worth discussing it in more detail than Wikipedia does.
For example, I can hardly remember an old MF Japanese lens that doesn't have problems with PF. And the problem is worse than with modern lenses like the Tamron 70-300 where the fringes are better delimited - on old lenses they bloom and have soft edges. For some reason, CZJ and Russian lenses don't seem to have this issue - I've only detected some PF on the longer focal lengths at wide apertures (135@2.8, 200@4), but the issue disappears when stopping down (maybe this is similar to what you've noticed for your old lenses). I'm also not able to figure out precisely how to make PF appear. In some days, with the Tamron 70-300, I get it all the time, in other days, I don't get it even though I am trying to force it to show up. I haven't yet figured out the exact recipe. It's not just about strong light and high contrast areas.
So I'd be more interested in direct experience and observations than in links to wikipedia - I've looked over those and they just collect a bunch of factors, but don't tell how they interact. Plus those articles raise questions that don't get answered there. For example, UV and IR are mentioned, but AFAIK, digital camera sensors aren't sensitive to UV - that's why UV filters are unnecessary. And sensors have a filter to cut out IR - whatever IR is left shouldn't make differences between one lens and another. Why are some lenses more vulnerable to PF than others? _________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
Laurentiu Cristofor wrote: |
- color fringing relative to the focal plane: green behind and red/purple in front. Not sure how this is called - it's referred to as bokeh fringing by photozone (I used to think incorrectly that it's called longitudinal chromatic aberrations). |
Well, it looks like longitudinal chromatic aberrations may indeed be the correct name for bokeh fringing. Here's a lengthy article on lens testing:
http://www.ronmartblog.com/2011/06/guest-blog-how-to-test-camera-lens-by.html
that includes this description:
Quote: |
One other thing to check with a wide aperture lens is spherochromatism (also called secondary longitudinal chromatic aberration or longitudinal color shift). |
_________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 524 Location: WA, USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Chromatic aberrations terminology |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
The original samples have disappeared for some reason - you can still find them here though:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/members/laurentiu-cristofor-albums-color-fringing-samples.html
I just wanted to add an errata - I was reminded of it in a recent thread: the Cosina sample is actually not PF, but LoCA - I examined more carefully the images and realized it only showed in front of the focal plane and that it changed to green fringing after that. The PF examples using Tamron are good though.
I collected my recent thoughts on this topic here:
http://laurphoto.blogspot.com/2011/11/chromatic-aberrations.html _________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/2419272
https://laurphoto.blogspot.com/ |
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taunusreiter
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 127
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
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taunusreiter wrote:
color fringing can be caused by coma or by longitudinal chromatic aberrations (German: Farblängsfehler).
The first should be quite easy to correct for an optical designer. The latter isn't that easy. First, you have to correct the errors with objects in focus, but that don't mean that the objects out of focus are corrected as well. With a zoom lens this is quite impossible.
If you don't have any color fringing it's probably an apochromatic corrected lens. _________________ My flickr Gallery
My Classic Camera Website |
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