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Looking for recommendation: 90 - 135mm, as sharp as possible
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Looking for recommendation: 90 - 135mm, as sharp as possible Reply with quote
Hi folks!

I am looking for a tele prime around 100mm. I want to use it on the NEX for architectural details, so the shooting distance would mainly be around 20 - 100m (important regarding macro lenses).


The lens characteristics should be:

- maximum sharpness and detail
- optimal rendering of materials and surfaces (like Micro-Nikkor 55mm F3,5 for instance)
- great contrast
- focus field as flat as possible
- good focus mechanics
- compact build


What I don't need so much (this time) is:

- speed (any F3,5 or F4 is fine)
- portrait aspects, bokeh (will mostly be used at F8 - F11)


The lenses in this focal rance I already own are:

- AF-Nikkor 85mm F1,8 (wonderful, but not this brutally crisp and not nice to focus manually)
- Mamiya/Sekor SX 135mm F2,8 (wonderful, but round, smooth and well-composed impression, nice for glass and metal but not so much for stone and concrete)
- Mamiya Sekor-C 80mm F2,8 N (almost the same character like the 135mm)


The lenses I already had in this scope and sold are:

- Nikkor 105mm F2,5 (nice but not satisfying for me, a bit disappointing at F5,6 - F11)
- Nikkor 135mm F3,5 (OK but not detailed enough, low contrast, purple fringing)


The lenses I have been looking at now are:

. Nikkor 135mm F2,8
. Micro-Nikkor 105mm F4
. Minolta MD-Rokkor Macro 100mm F4
. Minolta 135mm F3,5
. Leica Elmar 90mm F4 M39
. Super-Takumar 135mm F3,5
. Zeiss Tele-Tessar 135mm F4 (QBM)
. Mamiya Sekor-C 80mm F4 Macro
. Zeiss T* Sonnar 85mm F2,8 C/Y
. Canon FD 100mm Macro F4

And of course I´m looking for other recommendations.

I am absolutely unsure which way to turn, and I don't want to spend too much money either.

Please let me know what you think... I'm looking forward to your opinions and experiences.


Best regards,

Benedikt


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
strange that you found the Nikkor 105mm F2,5 disappointing at F5,6 - F11, I don't have it but samples I have see were good
I don't think you will find much better, better change the Nex Wink


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
From your list I have experience with Leica Elmar 90mm F4 in Leica M, http://ihyaahsani.blogspot.com/2011/05/leitz-wetzlar-m-elmar-904.html very nice lens, sharp wide open. I have Voigtlander 90/3,5 LTM too http://ihyaahsani.blogspot.com/2011/08/voigtlander-apo-lanthar-90mm-f35-mc-ltm.html,
Here's very dull comparison of both http://ihyaahsani.blogspot.com/2011/08/voigtlander-apo-lanthar-90mm-f35-mc-ltm_04.html

or cheaper solution Vega 90/2,8 P6 mount, but a little bit unconvinient in NEX (too heavy)


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's a good question!

Last edited by jjphoto on Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
@poilu:

The NEX?! No, I´m absolutely happy with it. I like it even better than my D90.

My 105mm F2,5 Ai Nikkor was disappointing, so I sold it. Now a friend of mine has one (Pre-Ai), and I don't like it that much either.


Regards,

Benedikt

Last edited by BenediktW on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
if you want you come over ( 3 hr drive ) an do some test, i can offer you those lenses from your "have been looking at list " ready for testing on NEX:

Zeiss west 135 f 4
Sonnar 85 f 2.8
Nikkor 105 micro f 4
Takumar 135 f 3.5

you can here compare them to several other 135´s and Voigtländer Apo 90mm 3.5, the last one would be my recommendation

I agree with Poilu regarding the Nikon 105`s but must admit, that i never had them on NEX because i have a Nikon body...


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Contax G Sonnar 2.8/90?
very small and excellent performer for Nex, it can still be found at a reasonable price.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
olympus OM 90mm/2 ?


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@der einrahmer:
Thanks for this very nice offer! In case something brings me close to your region, I will contact you in advance.
But what is your result from the comparison of these lenses?
The Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm is a very interesting idea, definitely in my relevant set!
The Nikon 105mm F2,5 was used on a D50 and a D200 by the way, not on the NEX.

@std:
The Contax G Sonnar 2.8/90 sounds very interesting and tempting... Do you have a an idea what price this lens has today?


@WolverineX:
F2 sounds too expensive Wink


Best regards,
Benedikt


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In this focal length hard to find bad lens in my opinion all just do great job.

Lower cost lenses what I like pretty much in this focal length.

Jupiter-9 leica screw mount RF lens.

Price/performance ratio is unbeatable.

http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/russian_lens/jupiter/jupiter-8-5cm-f2-redp-leica-screw/

Nikon 105mm f2.5 AIS one of the best lens what I seen around 100mm , I guess your lens had some faulty or AI and AIS is different. I also wasn't impressed much about 105mm pre-ai.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For G sonnar you can check in leicashop or on ebay
there are few between 200-230 EUR.

Also you can check this link - they have 3-4 at 150 Eur:
http://www.ffordes.com/category/Cameras/RangeFinder_Cameras/Contax_G/G_Lenses


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
as already written, my recommendation is the Voigtländer 90mm 3.5, but the Sonnar 85 has the same IQ. It is a matter of taste, if you like long and slim or short and strong Very Happy the sonnar has the size of a 50mm lens, so it is easily packed in a vest and used with a hood of a 50mm, the voigtländer has all on its own, you need another set. My preference for my NEX is getting more and more QMB mount because there you get the lowest prices for good lenses


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BenediktW wrote:


@WolverineX:
F2 sounds too expensive Wink



i got mine for 300€


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
i got mine for 300€


Well, yes, and it´s probably worth it, but I was planning not to invest a lot more than 150€, and not to go for aperture but for sharpness and compactness in the first degree.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
135mm lenses will give you a much more bang for the bucks. Lenses in the 85 - 105mm area is usually more expensive as you walk in to the portrait segment Wink

I would recommend (as I always do) the Sankor made 105mm f2.5. Can be picked up for 50 - 75 USD. Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for recommendation: 90 - 135mm, as sharp as poss Reply with quote
BenediktW wrote:

The lenses I already had in this scope and sold are:

- Nikkor 105mm F2,5 (nice but not satisfying for me, a bit disappointing at F5,6 - F11)


I just wonder. The 105/2.5 is one of the very best decently priced lenses there are. I've used one on an EOS350D, which many say is difficult to focus manually without any focusing aids. The 350D has about the same pixel pitch as EOD5DMk2, and still my results do not leave much to be desired, see my 105/2.5 page at http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_n105.html and check the linked full resolution versions of the photos. You'll notice that the critical architecture shots of the white cathedral have consecutive frame numbers so this isn't a selected set. The CA in the out of focus region is so low that it has no practical meaning what so ever - some APO lenses are about equal in this respect, some individual copies may be worse. The shots were taken at f/5.6, and you ought to remember that at this pixel pitch you'll experience some diffraction effects at f/11 at the latest if you are very critical. Also, for pixel peeping you must get the focus spot on, even a very slight deviation will soften the image.

If you want an optically even better lens, you might consider Nikkor 105/2 DC, which also has the extra advantage that you can adjust the bokeh although only slightly at the smaller apertures you are interested in -- still this feature might help when photographing some complex target. This lens is, of course, quite a lot more expensive than the old 105/2.5 - but still nowhere near as expensive as many rather common lenses.

Veijo


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Benedikt, I too take a lot of those kind of pictures. The only thing I would say about your list, as I don't know many of the lenses, is that I would strike out the Minolta 135/3.5 and substitute the CZJ S 135/3.5 which is heaps better.

Is 135 going to be a sensible FL for you on the NEX? That would equate to 216mm on full frame - its' OK if you're a long way from the subject but quite restrictive when you're closer. 100 would be better for me, and the 100 Macro would be fine. Or you might like to look at the 105/2.8 Super/SMC Takumar or 100/4 Macro-Takumar.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@vilva:

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Your pictures look very nice, but it's not the kind of impression I'm looking for. But it looks way better than my and my friend's copy.


@peterqd:

I feel your point is valid. 100 - 105mm are more what I'm looking for than 135mm.

The 100mm Macro-Takumar is a lens I have never looked at, I will gather some info then.

Does anyone know of a ~100mm Macro lens comparison? My feelings go more towards the Micro-Nikkor, but if the Tak (or a Minolta, Canon FD or whatever) are better, I am happy to try it.
I think the critical point is the performance towards infinity, maybe the Macro lenses behave very differently there. But I love the flat field and the good micro contrast.


Best regards,

Benedikt


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BenediktW wrote:
The 100mm Macro-Takumar is a lens I have never looked at, I will gather some info then.

Macro-Takumar 4/100 is soft until f8-f11, it's true macro lens optimized to deliver it's best beyond f11.

The best of the best of the best in 100mm range is Leica APO-Macro-Elmarit 2.8/100mm But it's huge and heavy, not exactly the lens you want mount NEX on Mr. Green

For NEX is probably best option APO Lanthar 3.5/90mm in Leica mount (it's smaller and usually cheaper than SLR variants).

If you don't mind some - very slight - CAs, then Sonnar 2.8/85 (Rollei or Contax mount) and Contax Sonnar 3.5/100 are great lenses. Rollei 85 variant is very small too, even smaller than some 50mm primes.

Other 100mm lenses I found very satisfactory are Meyer/Pentacon 2.8/100 and Pentax-M 2.8/100, both are very sharp at f4 and beyond, but they are not APO lenses, so you can expect some bokeh CAs.

I don't know which NEX you use, but f11 is already beyond diffraction limit for most sensors and images becomes softer. I'd suggest to shoot between f5.6 and f8 for best results - with all above mentioned lenses.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
Hi Benedikt, I too take a lot of those kind of pictures. The only thing I would say about your list, as I don't know many of the lenses, is that I would strike out the Minolta 135/3.5 and substitute the CZJ S 135/3.5 which is heaps better.

Is 135 going to be a sensible FL for you on the NEX? That would equate to 216mm on full frame - its' OK if you're a long way from the subject but quite restrictive when you're closer. 100 would be better for me, and the 100 Macro would be fine. Or you might like to look at the 105/2.8 Super/SMC Takumar or 100/4 Macro-Takumar.


135 is the longest I would use handheld on the NEX, and it' a bit tricky to use a 135 handheld so Peter is probably correct - a 100/105 might be better.

If you do want a 135, for me, there are two that stand out in terms of performance/price:

CZJ 3.5/135 Sonnar
Meyer/Pentacon 2.8/135

The Sonnar is extremely sharp, I would chose that for distace work where sharpness was important. The Meyer/Pentacon has fantastic colours and bokeh, I would chose that for close-up work. For the price these lenses can be had for, they are an absolute steal of a bargain imho and both are very commonly seen for sale.

I shot these yesterday with my Pentacon 2.8/135 on my NEX-3, all wide open:







More here:

http://forum.mflenses.com/pentacon-2-8-135mm-the-bokeh-monster-on-nex-3-t42555.html


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In the 100mm, the Meyer Optik Görlitz Trioplan gives very good results when stopped down.
Many know it for its crazy bokeh abilities when wide open.
When stopped down it has real good IQ.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you want 135 for your NEX, try Voigtlander 135/4 Super Dynarex in dkl mount, It so small almost similar to voigt 90/3,5 with hood. but thinner. It sharp wide open too


PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is the wonderful Samyang 85mm


PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OM 100/2,8 is a nifty little lens and no press too much and is cheap. This 100% crop the image edge . 5DC, Lens is no MC



PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tamron 90 is pretty good for the price.
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