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andrix
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: Zeiss from Icarex 35S vs Voigtlanders from Bessamatic m |
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andrix wrote:
Hi!
I've been using your forums from a while and this is the first time I have something to ask for  .
In a local store I've seen two nice cameras, an Zeiss Ikon Icarex 35S and a Voigtlander Bessamatic m.
The Icarex 35 S isn't labeled with BM/TM (possibly a BM) and comes with a:
* Carl Zeiss Color-Pantar 50mm f/2.8
* Carl Zeiss Super Dynarex 135 f/4
The Bessamatic/m comes with:
* Voigtlander Color-Skopar 50mm f/2.8
* Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm f/3,4
My idea is to adapt them to a Pentax k-x, til now now my investigation is that there aren't any adaptor to adapt the Zeiss BM lenses to the Pentax, but from Voigtlander I have the DKL to M42.
My question to the forum is, which is camera/lesnes are better and more valuable? (ah, both cameras cost the same, about 100 US here).
And someone have succeded in adapt the BM lenses to a Pentax ?.
Also I see that the guys form http://www.leitax.com have created an adaptor from BM to EOS ( I asked if they will create one for PK or M42).
Well, that are my questions. Thanks in advance!
Andres |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 4269
Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
dont think ive ever seen such adapters, and usually if not marked'TM' the zeiss is bayonette mount. i think i would go for the skopar lenses anyway. but tbh, at $100usd each i would buy both sets because i think they can be sold for much more separately. eg zeiss cam in good shape alone goes for that much.
_________________
Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
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std
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 1826
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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std wrote:
I would get the Bessamatic.
The skoparex alone is more than $100 and it's a very nice lens. I would gladly take the Voigtlander kit it for that price 
Also there are 'DKL-Pentax K' adapters on ebay.
_________________
Stefan
My lens list:
SLR MD: Rokkor 1,7/50 Exakta: Kilfitt-Makro-Kilar E 3.5/4cm; CZJ 2/50 Pancolar;M42: CZJ 2.8/50 Tessar; Mir-1B 2.8/37; Jupiter-9 2/85 T-mount: Tamron 5.9/200; Tamron 6.9/300; Tamron 7.5/400 C-mount: Cosmicar 1.8/50 Y/S: Sun 3.5/38-90, Sun 4/70-210 RF Contax RF: Jupiter-8 2/50; Contax G:CZ 2,8/21 Biogon T; CZ 2,8/28 Biogon T; CZ 2/35 Planar T; CZ 2/45 Planar T; CZ 2,8/90 Sonnar T |
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andrix
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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andrix wrote:
Hi guys,
thanks for both replies!
I agree both kits are great, the problem is I don't have the money right now  .
Why do you wanna get the Bessamatic-m instead ? The lenses are better?
I'd love to get Icarex if only I had the adapter .
Maybe, I can ask the seller if he can publish somewhere worldwide and you can buy it .
Andres |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 4269
Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
yeah, but first i dont think an adapter exists and second the VL lenses are better.
_________________
Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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andrix
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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andrix wrote:
rbelyell:
I thought Carl Zeiss were better than the Voigtlander one. As I read in some places, I see that the Icarex 35 S is more expensive than the bessamatic-m and also the lenses. But I am not an expert.
I think I'll follow your advice and go with the Bessamatic-m.
Andres |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 4269
Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
dynarex is not first rate zeiss; never heard of pantor. all color skopars considered very good.
_________________
Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Like you found out, you need hardware modification to the Icarex bayonet lenses to fit them on Pentax SLRs and keep infinity focus.
Don't know about the Bessamatic.
With all the good lenses that are available in M42, I would stay in M42 camp.
I have some Icarex lenses, and although good, they are not the same quality as Zeiss Contax or Contarex, and they do not justify the expense of hardware-modification to Pentax system, because you can find M42 lenses or Nikon lenses that are just as good as, or even better than, Icarex lenses, and do need only a simple adapter.
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andrix
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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andrix wrote:
Well, I've just returned from the store (well wasn't a true store, was a guy that sell them from his grandfather) I get the Voigtlander Bessamatic m. The condition is perfect, the two lenses are in perfect conditions.
Now I need to get an adapter to get it work with the K-x .
The Icarex 35 S effectively was the BM model, it was ok and in good conditions but I haven't had the way to get it work on the K-x, so I prefer to follow the recommendations in this forum.
Thanks to all for the good advices.
Andrés |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 4269
Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
good choice, good luck!
_________________
Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
Contax T
Hasselblad XPan + 45/4, 90/4
Kodak Retina Reflex IV + full set of Schneider Krueznach lenses
Mercury 2 half frame 35mm
Kodak Pro slr/n
Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
Bessa T 101 Anniversary Edition in Navy Blue
Mamiya Six Folder with Zuiko 75/3.5
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
The pantar isn't a Zeiss lens, it's an Ikon one. It es a three elements formula. Similar to the voigtar of voigtlander.
Rino.
Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:55 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Some of the Pantars were made by Rodenstock. The Pantar 4/75 for the Contaflex is a Rodenstock piece, I have one, I'm certain the other Contaflex Pantars are also Rodenstocks. Don't know if the Pantars for the Icarex are also made by Rodenstock.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:13 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
If made by Rodenstock I expect excellent quality, don't ruin these lenses with silly conversion . There is so many PK and M42 lenses are available to your camera.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:17 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I haven't managed to use my Pantars yet, the Contaflex Prima I bought from rockycameras in order to be able to use the Pantar was broken, despite being described as 'mint'...
I have removed the rear element from the Contaflex body in the hope I can figure out a way of remounting it so I can use my Pantars but I do't seem to be able to get anything approaching an in-focus image out of it on my EOS.
Rodenstock lenses are, as Attila says, high quality, so they should good.
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 3439
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
I think it reasonable to expect more IQ from a Rodenstock made Pantar then from a Meyer Domiplan, but don't believe that a triplet lens, even made by Rodenstock, is a top notch lens!
The Voigtländer Skopar is a Tessar like 4 elements lens and can be a tad better. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:52 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Of course triplets can be top-notch, the Tair-3 being an example that springs to mind.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Of course triplets can be top-notch, the Tair-3 being an example that springs to mind. |
The case of the tele lenses are different to the normal ones.
The leica Elmar M of three elements is a very good lens too. But in the 50 mm range, the situiation isn't the same.
The triplets normals are limited in the wide aperture and in the borders rendering. I use some triplets normals in the RF cams and there were nice from F/8 at the center, and F/11 and better at F/ 16 in the whole image.
The voigtlander's Voigtar and lanthar, the Ikon's pantar (for RF and for SRL), the domiplan are only a few examples of the so-so triplets.
The rodenstock's reomar and the scheneider's radionar (and isco's isconar too?) should't be the exception, I guess.
Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Good points Rino, as always I bow to your superior knowledge. Thanks for sharing.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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