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Biotar 5cm f1.4 Carl Zeiss Jena
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Biotar 5cm f1.4 Carl Zeiss Jena Reply with quote
Today I bought an 'extra' lens. It is a Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar T 5cm 1.4. Serial number is 27xxx. It is black, and a lens head block , no focusing, no aperture. Anybody know something about this lens ?

Last edited by Attila on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:28 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Let me have the complete serial# and I tell you more...


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sr: 2741234 thank you!


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very interesting, looks like it could be from a piece of optical equipment rather than a camera.

1.4/50 sounds unusual for the Biotar formula, you would expect such a lens to have a Planar or Sonnar formula. I wonder how this lens is related to the well-known 2/58 Biotar?

Hope you can find a way to mount it and take some pics!

Perhaps take an old Helios 44-2. remove both element groups (very easy, they just unscrew) and use the remaining helicoid and aperture to mount this Biotar?


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In my guess this is a movie camera lens head with stunning image quality. I have already a 3,5cm f2 Biotar it is and adopted lens from Arriflex mount to L39 I still need to buy a helicoid and convert professionally to Sony NEX. I think I will do with this lens when I able to afford it until that I will make some close up shoots with this lens on my usual way an adapter + same tape.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very interesting lens.

Good luck, Attila.

Rino


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Where do you find all those gems? Shocked


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Where do you find all those gems? Shocked


It was on local auction site http://www.vatera.hu , rarities mostly come from my antique merchant friend this was an exception.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, that is a gem! Shocked

Only 300 copies were made of this lens, according to Hartmut Thiele's book.
The release date is May 6, 1929 !! Shocked
The camera mount is "Robot"
And as additional notes, the book states: "50 St. T-Belag"
whatever that means.

Congratulations!!
I am happy for you... and envious for me! Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It doesn't look like a lens for the Robot camera, I thought those were all chrome?


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not a Robot lens , too big and long and Robot lenses has focusing and aperture part.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It doesn't look like a lens for the Robot camera, I thought those were all chrome?


It actually sounds quite strange to me also, because Robot camera company was founded in 1930.
So how could it be that lenses with Robot mount were made in 1929?
Maybe that was a mistake by the book.
Given the apparent thread mount of the lens, and given that the Biotar lenses were very popular in film making in the Thirties, I also propend like Attila for this to be a movie camera lens.
(that would also explain the very fast speed)


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe it's a lens made for UFA during the Nazi era? UFA were given a lot of funding by Goebbels.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't know. It would be nice if it has any special story, but I don't think so. Jena was one of the biggest factory certainly made many type of lens. What is amazing this lens did survive at least 80 yrs in MINT condition Shocked


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Wow, that is a gem! Shocked

Only 300 copies were made of this lens, according to Hartmut Thiele's book.
The release date is May 6, 1929 !! Shocked
The camera mount is "Robot"
And as additional notes, the book states: "50 St. T-Belag"
whatever that means.

Congratulations!!
I am happy for you... and envious for me! Laughing


You beat me Orio, just wanted to look it up...

"50 St. T-Belag" means: 50 pieces made, T-Coating


PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For Robot Klaus ?


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did manage to take some shoots.



PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
Where do you find all those gems? Shocked


It was on local auction site http://www.vatera.hu , rarities mostly come from my antique merchant friend this was an exception.


I wish I live in Europe... Sad .... Smile
First, I was hooked by your Biotar 75, then I hunted for Biotar 10cm (found it on leicashop.com) and now this one! ... noooo .... Mad


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
I did manage to take some shoots.



Damn, with a dof as shallow as that, it's gonna need to have an aperture fitted!

I think it must mean that this lens came from a camera that had a built-in Iris mechanism, which makes me think it was intended for one of two uses:

1. Movie/video camera, earlier ones often had the Iris in the body like a Pentax-110 SLR does...

2. Scientific Instrument or Industrial Machine Vision system - this would have the lens mounted a fixed distance and would be calibrated so the narrow dof was not an issue, modern Machine Vision systems use 1/2" or 1/3" CCD cameras with very fast prime lenses, usually shorter than 50mm but apertures of 1.1-1.4 are common.

My bet is on #2, maybe Zeiss produced Biotars like this before they produced the Tevidon which was optimised for use with video cameras?

It could even be from a photo-lithographic printing machine for producing electronic chips...


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
And knowing what it is, how can it be used to make pictures with this wonderfull optic?


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A profesional could remount this lens into a helicoid and aperture, no problem.

However, it may not be able to reach infinity, depends what it's register is...


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nixland wrote:
Attila wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
Where do you find all those gems? Shocked


It was on local auction site http://www.vatera.hu , rarities mostly come from my antique merchant friend this was an exception.


I wish I live in Europe... Sad .... Smile
First, I was hooked by your Biotar 75, then I hunted for Biotar 10cm (found it on leicashop.com) and now this one! ... noooo .... Mad


Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minolfan wrote:
And knowing what it is, how can it be used to make pictures with this wonderfull optic?


Register distance around M42 or a bit longer , this is plenty of space to buy a helicoid and use it on mirror less cameras. Diameter is M39 that is also fine to make it to fit for any camera.
On Olympic Sonnars 18cm blades are outside of rare element , so not impossible to take aperture mechanism from an L39 Russian lens and use it with helicoid without any modification on genuine lens.

This picture made with my Pentax helicoid adapter I did use tape to fix it in, due long extension I could make only close -up photo on this way.

@Ian this is pre-war lens think about that if you try to figure out made for what.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nice specimen
http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?f=iframe&object=auction&id=112149&sub=112093&acat=112149

take a look at Lot279

congrats


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
@Ian this is pre-war lens think about that if you try to figure out made for what.


Aha! How about a lens for the pre-war German Television cameras? Germany had a public TV servce in the 1930s under th Nazis, those early tube cameras were very insensitive and needed a lot of light.

Quote:
Electromechanical broadcasts began in Germany in 1929, but were without sound until 1934. Network electronic service started on March 22, 1935, on 180 lines using telecine transmission of film, intermediate film system, or cameras using the Nipkow Disk. Transmissions using cameras based on the iconoscope began on January 15, 1936. The Berlin Summer Olympic Games were televised, using both all-electronic iconoscope-based cameras and intermediate film cameras, to Berlin and Hamburg in August 1936. Twenty-eight public television rooms were opened for anybody who did not own a television set. The Germans had a 441-line system on the air in February 1937, and during World War II brought it to France, where they broadcast from the Eiffel Tower.


Don't know where you would find info on the early German TV optics however...
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