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hoacker
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 89
Location: Germany, S�dhessen
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 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: Reflections within barrel? Example shots... |
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hoacker wrote:
Hi. Last weekend I shot some bands and some photos show this "color fog" you can see in attached pictures. All of those photos were shot with Zeiss Planar T* 85mm f/1.4 AEG (C/Y). Is there anything I can do to reduce this effect? I mean, except for not shooting against spotlights.
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Holger
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D, 7D, 1000Da, M
Manual lenses: Zeiss Distagon 3,5/18 ZE, Nikon PC-Nikkor 28mm 1:3.5, Olympus OM 28 f/2,0, Zeiss Distagon 2/35 ZE, Leitz Summicron-R 1:2/50, Minolta MC ROKKOR 1:1.2 f=58mm (EOS-Mod), LZOS MC Jupiter-9 2/85, Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Trioplan 1:2.8/100 V (Exa), Zeiss Macro Planar 2/100 ZE, Nikon Nikkor-P.C Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm, Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 1:4,5/105, Porst Tele 1:1,8/135mm MC AUTO (M42), Cosina Auto Cosinon 135mm/2.8 (M42), Makinon MC 1:5.6 300mm Reflex, LZOS MTO 1000A 10,5/1100
AF lenses: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2,8 IS USM, Canon EF-M 22mm 1:2 STM, Canon EF 40 f/2,8 STM, Canon EF-S 60 f/2,8 USM, Canon EF 200 1:2.8L II USM, Canon EF 500 f/4L IS USM, Canon Extender 1,4x III, Sigma 50-150/2,8 EX DC APO HSM II, Sigma 150 f/2,8 HSM, Sigma APO Tele Converter 1.4x EX DG, Sigma APO Tele Converter 2x EX DG, Kenko Extension Tubes
For sale (PM me): E.Zuiko Auto-T 1:3,5 f=100mm (Pen F), Zeiss Planar 85 f/1,4 (C/Y)
Some pictures at Flickr |
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Himself
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 3240
Location: Montreal
Expire: 2013-05-30
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Himself wrote:
A hood maybe?
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hoacker
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 89
Location: Germany, S�dhessen
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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hoacker wrote:
| Himself wrote: |
| A hood maybe? |
Yes, had one attached. The hood certainly does not help when shooting against the lights, as you see in the second picture. I was using 4 different lenses that evening and only the planar showed that fog...
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Holger
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D, 7D, 1000Da, M
Manual lenses: Zeiss Distagon 3,5/18 ZE, Nikon PC-Nikkor 28mm 1:3.5, Olympus OM 28 f/2,0, Zeiss Distagon 2/35 ZE, Leitz Summicron-R 1:2/50, Minolta MC ROKKOR 1:1.2 f=58mm (EOS-Mod), LZOS MC Jupiter-9 2/85, Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Trioplan 1:2.8/100 V (Exa), Zeiss Macro Planar 2/100 ZE, Nikon Nikkor-P.C Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm, Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 1:4,5/105, Porst Tele 1:1,8/135mm MC AUTO (M42), Cosina Auto Cosinon 135mm/2.8 (M42), Makinon MC 1:5.6 300mm Reflex, LZOS MTO 1000A 10,5/1100
AF lenses: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2,8 IS USM, Canon EF-M 22mm 1:2 STM, Canon EF 40 f/2,8 STM, Canon EF-S 60 f/2,8 USM, Canon EF 200 1:2.8L II USM, Canon EF 500 f/4L IS USM, Canon Extender 1,4x III, Sigma 50-150/2,8 EX DC APO HSM II, Sigma 150 f/2,8 HSM, Sigma APO Tele Converter 1.4x EX DG, Sigma APO Tele Converter 2x EX DG, Kenko Extension Tubes
For sale (PM me): E.Zuiko Auto-T 1:3,5 f=100mm (Pen F), Zeiss Planar 85 f/1,4 (C/Y)
Some pictures at Flickr |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 2167
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
I'm not an expert on this lens but the fogging seems severe - is there any internal 'misting' I wonder.
I once had a 135mm f3.5 pre-set lens that gave similar results and found the problem there was a glossy black T2 adapter ring, but I wouldn't have thought your lens would have been made with a polished interior!
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Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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fuzzywuzzy
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 1258
Location: Down East, Canada, eh?
Expire: 2013-11-30
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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fuzzywuzzy wrote:
I can understand not wanting this effect all the time, but on those shots, especially the second, it adds a great rock'n'roll atmoshphere IMHO. |
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 684
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
Did you use a filter? A filter can cause this too. |
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SXR_Mark
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 506
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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SXR_Mark wrote:
This effect can be caused by reflections between the shiny digital sensor and the rear element of the lens. Basically, light scatters back and forth between the two and creates the fog.
Does the Zeiss have a fairly flat rear surface to the last element? This would make the effect worse.
Mind you, I would have thought the Zeiss would have a good anti-reflection coating on the rear element, which should prevent the reflections. Can you see if the rear element looks to have a good coating?
Mark
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I handled four different copies of this lens and never had such bad results.
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hoacker
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 89
Location: Germany, S�dhessen
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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hoacker wrote:
In this case, the "foggy" results are not that bad. Well, it's rock, and that fog add's to the atmosphere. But in general I don't want this effect. I don't have much time left to inspect this effect the next few days, but I'll keep you informed. Thanks for your responses! Really!
Forgot to add, no filter used...
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Holger
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D, 7D, 1000Da, M
Manual lenses: Zeiss Distagon 3,5/18 ZE, Nikon PC-Nikkor 28mm 1:3.5, Olympus OM 28 f/2,0, Zeiss Distagon 2/35 ZE, Leitz Summicron-R 1:2/50, Minolta MC ROKKOR 1:1.2 f=58mm (EOS-Mod), LZOS MC Jupiter-9 2/85, Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Trioplan 1:2.8/100 V (Exa), Zeiss Macro Planar 2/100 ZE, Nikon Nikkor-P.C Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm, Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 1:4,5/105, Porst Tele 1:1,8/135mm MC AUTO (M42), Cosina Auto Cosinon 135mm/2.8 (M42), Makinon MC 1:5.6 300mm Reflex, LZOS MTO 1000A 10,5/1100
AF lenses: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2,8 IS USM, Canon EF-M 22mm 1:2 STM, Canon EF 40 f/2,8 STM, Canon EF-S 60 f/2,8 USM, Canon EF 200 1:2.8L II USM, Canon EF 500 f/4L IS USM, Canon Extender 1,4x III, Sigma 50-150/2,8 EX DC APO HSM II, Sigma 150 f/2,8 HSM, Sigma APO Tele Converter 1.4x EX DG, Sigma APO Tele Converter 2x EX DG, Kenko Extension Tubes
For sale (PM me): E.Zuiko Auto-T 1:3,5 f=100mm (Pen F), Zeiss Planar 85 f/1,4 (C/Y)
Some pictures at Flickr |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I meant "bad" as in "technically bad", not artistically.
I also think that the photos came out with a nice atmosphere.
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Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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hoacker
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 89
Location: Germany, S�dhessen
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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hoacker wrote:
| Orio wrote: |
I meant "bad" as in "technically bad", not artistically.
I also think that the photos came out with a nice atmosphere. |
Yes, agreed! But I just want to understand why and when this effect occurs. I don't always shot rock bands, and i'd like to avoid this when I don't want it...
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Holger
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D, 7D, 1000Da, M
Manual lenses: Zeiss Distagon 3,5/18 ZE, Nikon PC-Nikkor 28mm 1:3.5, Olympus OM 28 f/2,0, Zeiss Distagon 2/35 ZE, Leitz Summicron-R 1:2/50, Minolta MC ROKKOR 1:1.2 f=58mm (EOS-Mod), LZOS MC Jupiter-9 2/85, Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Trioplan 1:2.8/100 V (Exa), Zeiss Macro Planar 2/100 ZE, Nikon Nikkor-P.C Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm, Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 1:4,5/105, Porst Tele 1:1,8/135mm MC AUTO (M42), Cosina Auto Cosinon 135mm/2.8 (M42), Makinon MC 1:5.6 300mm Reflex, LZOS MTO 1000A 10,5/1100
AF lenses: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2,8 IS USM, Canon EF-M 22mm 1:2 STM, Canon EF 40 f/2,8 STM, Canon EF-S 60 f/2,8 USM, Canon EF 200 1:2.8L II USM, Canon EF 500 f/4L IS USM, Canon Extender 1,4x III, Sigma 50-150/2,8 EX DC APO HSM II, Sigma 150 f/2,8 HSM, Sigma APO Tele Converter 1.4x EX DG, Sigma APO Tele Converter 2x EX DG, Kenko Extension Tubes
For sale (PM me): E.Zuiko Auto-T 1:3,5 f=100mm (Pen F), Zeiss Planar 85 f/1,4 (C/Y)
Some pictures at Flickr |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| hoacker wrote: |
| Orio wrote: |
I meant "bad" as in "technically bad", not artistically.
I also think that the photos came out with a nice atmosphere. |
Yes, agreed! But I just want to understand why and when this effect occurs. I don't always shot rock bands, and i'd like to avoid this when I don't want it... |
The Planar 1.4/85 has a large front glass, and the T* coating, although undoubtedly the best there is, can not perform miracles: if you point this lens towards a strong light source, it will create some flares.
The point is the amount, which should not be as invasive as your photos show.
Try the lens in a daylight situation with a blue sky and bright sun, do some backlight photos, trying some different angles. Then let's see the results, I'll be able to tell you if your lens behaves normally for a 1.4/85 Planar or if there is some problem to it.
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Orio, Administrator
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NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
Going back to the original question and seeing the responses so far, in my estimation, there's not much you can do. You may want a better (technical) result, but I doubt any other lens could do it. In fact the majority would be much much worse. The conditions are really harsh like shooting into the sun on a hazy day.
Orio and "fuzzywuzzy" (I'm sorry I don't know your real name) are right. They have a great atmosphere. I appreciate that over technical, because the "art" is sometimes lost to us photography technophiles here. |
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hoacker
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 89
Location: Germany, S�dhessen
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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hoacker wrote:
Yes, yes, the atmosphere of the shots is great, no doubt for me. There's even more in my collection of that evening. But that's not what I would expect from a Zeiss lens. I'll test the lens in some back light situations the next few days...
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Holger
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D, 7D, 1000Da, M
Manual lenses: Zeiss Distagon 3,5/18 ZE, Nikon PC-Nikkor 28mm 1:3.5, Olympus OM 28 f/2,0, Zeiss Distagon 2/35 ZE, Leitz Summicron-R 1:2/50, Minolta MC ROKKOR 1:1.2 f=58mm (EOS-Mod), LZOS MC Jupiter-9 2/85, Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Trioplan 1:2.8/100 V (Exa), Zeiss Macro Planar 2/100 ZE, Nikon Nikkor-P.C Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm, Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 1:4,5/105, Porst Tele 1:1,8/135mm MC AUTO (M42), Cosina Auto Cosinon 135mm/2.8 (M42), Makinon MC 1:5.6 300mm Reflex, LZOS MTO 1000A 10,5/1100
AF lenses: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2,8 IS USM, Canon EF-M 22mm 1:2 STM, Canon EF 40 f/2,8 STM, Canon EF-S 60 f/2,8 USM, Canon EF 200 1:2.8L II USM, Canon EF 500 f/4L IS USM, Canon Extender 1,4x III, Sigma 50-150/2,8 EX DC APO HSM II, Sigma 150 f/2,8 HSM, Sigma APO Tele Converter 1.4x EX DG, Sigma APO Tele Converter 2x EX DG, Kenko Extension Tubes
For sale (PM me): E.Zuiko Auto-T 1:3,5 f=100mm (Pen F), Zeiss Planar 85 f/1,4 (C/Y)
Some pictures at Flickr |
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fuzzywuzzy
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 1258
Location: Down East, Canada, eh?
Expire: 2013-11-30
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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fuzzywuzzy wrote:
| SXR_Mark wrote: |
This effect can be caused by reflections between the shiny digital sensor and the rear element of the lens. Basically, light scatters back and forth between the two and creates the fog.
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That's interesting, the other day I got some whacky rainbow flare on a lens with a badly fungused rear element.
This was taken at sunset, the sun is almost right behind the truck. I was going to try to duplicate this but yard work has consumed my sunny evenings lately.
edit - this is a 100% crop. FWIW the lens is a 200mm Nikkor Q, and I did use the built in lens hood. The lens is decently sharp when used in sensible lighting conditions and stopped down a bit. |
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SXR_Mark
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 506
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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SXR_Mark wrote:
| fuzzywuzzy wrote: |
That's interesting, the other day I got some whacky rainbow flare on a lens with a badly fungused rear element.
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Very nice diffraction pattern. Note the cross shape - this means the diffraction is off a periodic structure with rectangular symmetry. The obvious candidate is the sensor itself.
I guess the bright spot of light from the reflection on the car is diffracting off the sensor and the diffraction pattern is being reflected back onto the sensor by the rear element in the lens.
Mark
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