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sinner79
Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: Pentacon 135 2.8 "bokeh monster" |
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sinner79 wrote:
How much money value for this lens?
Meyer-Optik Orestor 2,8/135 15 blades is it similar in image quality?
Thank you very much. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
From what I have seen, I would even prefer the Meyer lens to the Pentacon.
I once had a Pentacon 2.8/135 and, yes, it was a good lens but by no means as fantastic as many say it is, rather slightly above average. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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BRunner
Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
They are both same lenses with same optical scheme. Latter Pentacon versions can be slightly more contrasty.
If you can get it ~30€ it's very good value for the money. _________________ .: APO-Maniac :. |
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sinner79
Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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sinner79 wrote:
Better 135 f2.8 15 blades or 200 f4 15 blades for bokeh and 3d effect?
Thanks |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
sinner79 wrote: |
Better 135 f2.8 15 blades or 200 f4 15 blades for bokeh and 3d effect?
Thanks |
I have Meyer Primotar 3.5/135 with 15 blades and Pentacon 4/200 with 15 blades.
Tomorrow I will do a specific bokeh test of these two lenses if you like, that will give you an answer.
I think the two lenses are similar in IQ, both are good buys imho.
This is a shot I took with the Pentacon 4/200 the other day:
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
There are many threads on this forum about the Pentacon 135/2.8 bokeh monster. It's an incredible lens:
Flamingo by ManualFocus-G, on Flickr
Hungry! by ManualFocus-G, on Flickr _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3705 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
The Greek seller manages to sell samples for around 150 EUR or even more. Buyers thrust that his speciments are good. And if the sample is a good one, it might even be awesome. Anyway lens has to be clean inside (no grease condensation or coating deterioration). _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Attila wrote: |
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. |
Apart from the Domiplan all of my Meyer/Pentacon lenses are good, I collect them.
Zeiss are more expensive but are they actually better? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Attila wrote: |
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. |
Apart from the Domiplan all of my Meyer/Pentacon lenses are good, I collect them.
Zeiss are more expensive but are they actually better? |
Depends what you mean by better. A Zeiss Sonnar 135/2.8 T* has more micro contrast and therefore pop, but the Pentacon has buttery bokeh. _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Attila wrote: |
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. |
Apart from the Domiplan all of my Meyer/Pentacon lenses are good, I collect them.
Zeiss are more expensive but are they actually better? |
Depends what you mean by better. A Zeiss Sonnar 135/2.8 T* has more micro contrast and therefore pop, but the Pentacon has buttery bokeh. |
One day I'll collect some Zeises then I cam compare them to my Meyer/Pentacon collection. Flektogon 28 vs Pentacon 2.8/28 could be interesting, Planar 1.8/50 vs Pentacon Electric 1.8/50 etc.
Maybe we could arrange a forum meetup this summer and we can bring some lenses to compare...
I do think Meyer/Pentacon aperture mechanisms are more robust though, all of mine work fine apart from the 1.8/50 that is stuck wide open but that is my fault. I see a lot of Zeiss lenses with broken apertures. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:32 am Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
ManualFocus-G wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Attila wrote: |
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. |
Apart from the Domiplan all of my Meyer/Pentacon lenses are good, I collect them.
Zeiss are more expensive but are they actually better? |
Depends what you mean by better. A Zeiss Sonnar 135/2.8 T* has more micro contrast and therefore pop, but the Pentacon has buttery bokeh. |
One day I'll collect some Zeises then I cam compare them to my Meyer/Pentacon collection. Flektogon 28 vs Pentacon 2.8/28 could be interesting, Planar 1.8/50 vs Pentacon Electric 1.8/50 etc.
Maybe we could arrange a forum meetup this summer and we can bring some lenses to compare...
I do think Meyer/Pentacon aperture mechanisms are more robust though, all of mine work fine apart from the 1.8/50 that is stuck wide open but that is my fault. I see a lot of Zeiss lenses with broken apertures. |
Sorry, I misunderstood and was talking about the higher quality West German made Carl Zeiss T* lenses (never ever had a problem with any of those...built like tanks!).
Comparable lenses would from East Germany would be:
Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 v Pentacon 50/1.8
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4 v Pentacon 29/2.8 or 30/3.5
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5 v Pentacon 135/2.8
The only real contender there is the Pentacon 135/2.8 IMO.
West German versions are:
Carl Zeiss Planar T* 50/1.7
Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 28/2.8
Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 135/2.8
All of them stunning _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:08 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
ManualFocus-G wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Attila wrote: |
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. |
Apart from the Domiplan all of my Meyer/Pentacon lenses are good, I collect them.
Zeiss are more expensive but are they actually better? |
Depends what you mean by better. A Zeiss Sonnar 135/2.8 T* has more micro contrast and therefore pop, but the Pentacon has buttery bokeh. |
One day I'll collect some Zeises then I cam compare them to my Meyer/Pentacon collection. Flektogon 28 vs Pentacon 2.8/28 could be interesting, Planar 1.8/50 vs Pentacon Electric 1.8/50 etc.
Maybe we could arrange a forum meetup this summer and we can bring some lenses to compare...
I do think Meyer/Pentacon aperture mechanisms are more robust though, all of mine work fine apart from the 1.8/50 that is stuck wide open but that is my fault. I see a lot of Zeiss lenses with broken apertures. |
Sorry, I misunderstood and was talking about the higher quality West German made Carl Zeiss T* lenses (never ever had a problem with any of those...built like tanks!).
Comparable lenses would from East Germany would be:
Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 v Pentacon 50/1.8
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4 v Pentacon 29/2.8 or 30/3.5
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5 v Pentacon 135/2.8
The only real contender there is the Pentacon 135/2.8 IMO.
West German versions are:
Carl Zeiss Planar T* 50/1.7
Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 28/2.8
Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 135/2.8
All of them stunning |
Thanks for clearing up my confusion!
Reason I haven't bothered with collecting any Zeiss lenses so far is the price issue - those Zeiss lenses that are within my price range aren't that great, such as the 2.8/50 Tessar, 2/58 Biotar and 3.5/135 Sonnar.
I mean, why buy those when I have the Russian copies I got cheap and all work good. Also, the Pentacon 1.8/50 is as common and cheap as the 2.8/50 Tessar.
I guess I'm gonna have to save up my pennies for some West German Zeiss and see for myself.
P.S. I don't have the Lydith 3.5/30 or the Pentacon 2.8/29 but I do have the later 2.8/28 Pentacon and like it a lot, plan to get a 2.4/35 Flektogon when I see one with a working aperture cheap. Be interesting to compare them. Nearly bought a Lydith the other day, the 15 blades appeals to me. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 7:01 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Attila wrote: |
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. |
Well, I think that the built of Meyer lenses is more consistent, i.e. A Pentacon lens can easily be faulty because of bad manufacturing, the older Meyer lenses have a better built.
If you get a decent Pentacon copy, it's a very nice lens, though.
Anyway, I am not a big Pentacon fan. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5017 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
From what I have seen, I would even prefer the Meyer lens to the Pentacon.
I once had a Pentacon 2.8/135 and, yes, it was a good lens but by no means as fantastic as many say it is, rather slightly above average. |
Well I suppose someone can post results of a 135mm lens superior in lines/mm to the Meyer/Pentacon, but my Meyer has some quality (hard to describe quality) that shows using film. _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Excalibur wrote: |
LucisPictor wrote: |
From what I have seen, I would even prefer the Meyer lens to the Pentacon.
I once had a Pentacon 2.8/135 and, yes, it was a good lens but by no means as fantastic as many say it is, rather slightly above average. |
Well I suppose someone can post results of a 135mm lens superior in lines/mm to the Meyer/Pentacon, but my Meyer has some quality (hard to describe quality) that shows using film. |
Why did you quote my statement in your post? I don't get that.
Disagreement? Confirmation? _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:32 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Attila wrote: |
I had couple of copies from this lens, all were excellent. In my opinion older Pentacon and Meyer lenses have NO copy variation issue all are same. |
Well, I think that the built of Meyer lenses is more consistent, i.e. A Pentacon lens can easily be faulty because of bad manufacturing, the older Meyer lenses have a better built.
If you get a decent Pentacon copy, it's a very nice lens, though.
Anyway, I am not a big Pentacon fan. |
For sure the 70s Meyer lenses are better made, they are all-metal and mostly 15 blades, the late 80s Pentacon Electric lenses may be plastic and have 6 blades but the 1.8/50 and 2.8/28 are both lovely lenses imho, largely overlooked because they are in PB mount not M42. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3705 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Pentacon's (DDR) crucial parts aren't made of plastic.
Despite higher Meyer quality it's the age that started to show on coatings of few elements. Nothing can be done about it - it peels of.
I am still looking for most favorable solution: i believe such coating can be replaced nowadays. If it's only few EUR difference if you choose glasses with anti-reflex coating or without i bet some optical service can apply it to lens element cheaply enough. You might also ask around at your area. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
I really haven't noticed a difference in build between Meyer 135/2.8 and Pentacon 135/2.8. IQ seems almost the same to me too, although I have one Pentacon 135/2.8 which was better than all others I'd tested in terms of contrast, I presume it's coating was simply less worn!
Ian - The Sonnar 135/3.5 is an amazing lens, and performs a bit better than the Jupiters IMO, contrast wise at least. _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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sinner79
Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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sinner79 wrote:
Ok, but about 135mm 2.8 vs 200mm f4? Which one better bokeh and 3d effect? |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
Neither is known for its 3D effect. But the 135mm has creamier bokeh. Are you actually going to buy a Pentacon and a 50/1.4 lens at some point? _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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sinner79
Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: |
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sinner79 wrote:
Yes, they are my targets:-) I've bought also a helios 44-2 (I'm waiting for it)
I like bokeh really much and for 3d effect...which one lens famous for it?
Thank you. |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
sinner79 wrote: |
Yes, they are my targets:-) I've bought also a helios 44-2 (I'm waiting for it)
I like bokeh really much and for 3d effect...which one lens famous for it?
Thank you. |
3D is usually more about contrast, so it's not often you will find lenses optimised for contrast AND bokeh, although the Carl Zeiss T* Sonnar 135/2.8 seems to have both. If you mean "pop", seperating the subject from the bokeh cleanly, then the Pentacon 135/2.8 can do it well from f2.8-4. _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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sinner79
Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:59 am Post subject: |
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sinner79 wrote:
Actually I've got a Auto Pentacon 135 2.8 6 blades, really good...but I like 15 blades effect. I'm wondering if, having a 135 already, could be a great choice also the 200mm f4 15 blades, what do you think about this lens in regard of 135mm? |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
I MUCH prefer the 135/2.8 15 blade version to the 200/4 but others have got great results from it. It's not a bokeh lens just because it has 15 blades. _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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