Love-Hate relationship with MFL

[newton]

I am not sure if this is what is called delusions of grandeur or truly reality, but I have noticed that the supply-demand curve shifts or seems to shift with every post of a lens here. I am not particularly happy about that, as clearly some people have higher means of financial well-being than others and are simply hoarding lenses....nah, simply buying up everything.

I will probably refrain from posting any pictures with lenses I use because of this. I am mostly trying to learn, not have something I write about increase or decrease in value or supply. That is just not cool with me. I am happy with all the crap I have (NOT!). These people, whomever they are, should give other people a chance to get some decent quality glass and slow down on buying up everything. It may be upsetting some people. I do not know who these people are, whether they are anonymous / silent readers, regular contributors, or, actually, no one affiliated with this site (or other sites).

The good thing is that millions of these manual lenses were produced, so whomever is buying up the supply seems silly, at best, because the market won't be able to bear the price increases that these people so surreptitiously are trying to drive up by hoarding, not using, their sh--. I am a user. I use my stuff every day, 24/7, so I really do not appreciate lens collectors and hoarders, whomever they are, possibly Ebay sellers. My two cents. I think there is a clinical diagnosis for that, if not me. There is no way to prove what the effect here is on the market, but it is QUITE irksome! especially when poor people are simply trying to get by with some decent glass. My four cents.

P.S. Those people may want to keep in mind, the prices cannot go up too much; the market may fall out because there were millions of these MFL made and everyone has a finite life and the hoarded collection may too be back on the market, at rock bottom, low prices.

[Orio]

There is no conspirators here. And your post is delirating.
Also, generical ranting against our members with a collective "you" is something that we don't like.
Do you have a problem with someone? Solve that privately, or at least make first and last name, and bring evidences in your support.
It appears that you are trolling this group, and we don't like this either.
So take this as an official warning. Another performance like this, and you're out.

Orio
admin.

[AhamB]

I think most of us who have seen the prices of MF lenses (and even AF lenses like Contax N) skyrocket because it has become fashionable to adapt them feel a bit disgruntled, but most likely it's not registered users here who are the same (ebay) sellers that keep setting higher price standards.
I am very happy though that we still have marketplace forums like the one here, where sellers are not trying to squeeze every penny out of their buyers but simply feed back lenses back to the community at about the same price that they bought them (not all seem to do this, but I think many do). I do it only out of appreciation of all the knowledge I have gained from many forum members.

It sounds like you're being a bit paranoid, newton. If there are really hoarders then it's the sellers on ebay and other places that buy up valuable lenses and list them for absurd prices. Some of them may be monitoring forums like this one, to see which lenses they should be buying up next, but we can be sure that they will not be giving up their business because of your rant. Sure, the prices would have been different if no one would share any info about the lenses in discussion forums, but how would you learn which ones are most interesting?

[enzodm]

Since Orio did not close the thread, let me give my view on this.

In this thread you write "I have too many lenses". Independently from the number, this puts you, as many forum members including me, among collectors and not only users of MF lenses. So, you have nothing to tell about others' behaviour, even if they are able to spend more than you. I never bash people with cars better than mine (well, except SUV owners ), because my cheaper Fiat is just as good as a BMW in transporting me where I want.
Lens collection is not an essential level of subsistence: it is something you may choose to do or not in many ways, spending how much you can and you want, without any consequence on your photographic output, which is what you are interested into if you are just a user. Henri Cartier-Bresson shooted with just one lens .

Of course, threads describing quality of lenses will help drive lens price, because when I look at something new on Ebay, I also try to understand the quality and set my max expense according to it (and top-limited by common sense and salary ). If a lens is described as good, chances are I'm glad to spend a little bit more. A fundamentally honest group of people like those found here helps me in choosing with awareness, although I might end spending something more (but the alternative is spending for unknown quality).
However, MFlenses is not the only forum on this topic, so giving responsibility to this specific forum for something occuring on the whole Web is a little bit silly. By the way, I agree with AhamB that marketplace prices are often more reasonable than Ebay, although I never bought directly here.
While I was never able to find places selling old cameras in my area, it is known that bargains are better made directly in the real world, where all the hype on old lenses that push the web market is not yet arrived. So, look at flea markets, pawn shops and friends' relatives if you want to spend less, occasionally finding gems.

[ManualFocus-G]

Newton, I'm afraid you're coming across as a bit daft. There is supply and demand for everything in life and lenses are no different. For what it's worth, I can still buy most lenses I want for reasonable prices on eBay and elsewhere too, so I don't see an issue. For example I bought a Yashica ML 28mm for £8 the other day

[iangreenhalgh1]

I'm looking at one of those now, 10 quid buy it now, bit battered looking but says the optics are clean.

[WolverineX]

this used to be such a peaceful place...

[themoleman342]

[Attila]

Better to change your view Newton, look MFLenses like a piece of industrial art , like a paint and don't require all time to get them for nothing...

If an item has good price that is help to survive for centuries, people will take care it and if they need money they can sell it easily , trouble free.
If item has no price like what you like , people will throw it out , not sell it , not waste their time with that. 'Talented' guys will butcher it etc.
Finally it will be a few pieces or none of them will survive decades or centuries.

[Esox lucius]

True, manual focus lens prices are going up, and you think mflenses.com is to blame? In other words, you think this discussion forum is the reason why millions and millions of DSLR users globally have become aware of the price/quality ratio built into old manual focus lens designs?

The biggest reason why manual focus lenses are in higher demand than they were let's say 3 years ago is because DSLR technology is maturing. More and more amateurs are using full frame DSLR --> larger sensor reveals limitations of existing lens choices --> they start looking at alternative glass.

DSLR photography, and photography in general is booming globally. More and more people discover photography, and manufacturers pump millions and millions of 20 megapixel bodies to a market which naturally then needs lenses that can deliver also on large sensors.

[Orio]

Just to make it clear: it is acceptable to complain about higher pricing trends, etc. Many people does that every now and then, it's a topic like another.
What is not acceptable is to identify that problem with the MFLenses group, personalize it with the members here, and implying that we are a lobby that supports inconvenient ways to financial profit.
This group and the people here deserve better respect and those who are not willing to give it, will soon find their way out.

[LucisPictor]

Even if we had an influence on price development (it is possible that others see and read about the great performance of our lenses here), that influence is surely not that big that we as a group can be accused of accumulating lenses on purpose just to push their prices up.

Hey, do we have such a huge influence? Great! Let's overthrow some dictators and destroy international cartels! MFLF is the new CIA, only better!

C'mon, newton, get real.

It's a pity if one cannot afford the lenses he would like to have. To a certain extend this is true for everybody here. I would love to have an Elmarit 19, a Summilux 50 and an APO-Summicron 180, but I can't. They are too expensive for my taste. So I need to accept to go without.
Leitz lenses, as an example for high end products, have always been very expensive. This is not a consequence of our discussions here.
On the contrary, without getting the idea to look for used Leica lenses, I would not own two of them now!

When I started with putting MFlenses to my cam, I did not do so with Leitz or Zeiss or even Nikon. The first ones I bought were old, Russian M42 lenses. You cannot expect to start with the best lenses available!
Buy those you can afford first and then slowly try to improve your set, the most important ingredient is patience!

And please, do not attack others because they have more resources than you do.

[calvin83]

Try to think in the other side:

You have learn which lens is good and not expensive here, haven't you? With patience and your knowledge on MF lenses you gain here, you should able to find some good offers or even big bargains on ebay, this forum or else where.

[newton]

I am not trolling at all. Sorry. I am very appreciative of the members on this forum and this is not at all against anyone. Everyone on here is extremely knowledgeable and I am very selective about which forums I join so it has nothing to do with the mflenses.com forum; it has to do with manual focus lenses. Sorry. I am glad there is a marketplace, especially on this forum. Orio, I am a very nice person. I get upset sometimes because I really wanted a particular lens and it was snapped up, ironically. I guess that is fair and square. Yes, I have too many lenses; most of them are junk and too much in one category. It is my loss that I am not successful in the marketplace (not here) and it is my loss that I am not a wealthy person that can buy and collect lots of goodies. You have to really interpret my posts as being discussion-orientated and kind but nothing else. Why would I troll? That is stupid. A warning seems silly and overreaching when I am not at all that kind of person. Why would I go against anyone on this forum when everyone has been and continues to be so helpful, including with critical feedback. Trust me. I am willing to learn more and so far I have been. Thanks!

Orio, I never implied this: "implying that we are a lobby that supports inconvenient ways to financial profit." That is silly. There is no lobby here. I do not think anyone is doing anything here for financial profit. That is silly. You have to take my posts with a grain of salt and also look on the bright side of my posts because I never mean to be negative; I may be daft and stupid sometimes, but most of the time I don't full explain everything or am just JEALOUS! LOL!!!!

Orio, you may have met some trollers as admin, but I am not one of them. I can understand the trigger and importance as admin to keep those people out, but I am not one of them at all. This forum and it's people are valuable to me and I am appreciative of your feedback. I am learning so much and I might go through some growing pains in the process, as some other people had pointed out to me in this thread. Very appreciative! Your posts are great, by the way! I certainly respect your work.

themoleman342, you are totally right. I had some money in savings. Now I don't. Regarding income, every day is a challenge, as a photographer but that is a different story. I agree that this is somewhat of a luxury. Thank you for being honest!

AhamB, I think you are totally right. There are some people on Ebay doing that. I talked to a guy a few months ago; he had the largest collection of brand X lenses. He said he won't sell them as he is waiting for the prices to go up, while he advertises on the marketplace!!! He is a big Ebay seller. I was going to buy from him but when he told me his motivation, he lost my business and my interest in that type of lens. I bought something better and paid even more. May be I am daft and idealistic sometimes, but, at least, I am honest, like I think everyone on MFL is, which is why I really enjoy being on this forum!

Ian and LucisPictor, I love your senses of humour....as well as everyone else's! Thanks!

Esox lucius, that is insightful and helpful. Thanks. I needed that. I think you are right. Photography is growing like mad!

Atilla, great points! Insightful and helpful! Very interesting thought that only the best lenses will survive. Awesome. Thanks!

I edited my comments because some of it was interpreted the wrong way. Sorry.

[NikonD]

btw... some time ago I saw Nikkor 20/4 for 99€ in mint condition unfortunately I was a bit too late on the "buy it now" button, 3 days later it appeared for 199€... that made me mad...

[newton]

[hexi]

Just enjoy the fact that many people from this forum do share their images and opinions on their favorite lenses ! From this forum i learned a lot on some lenses i wanted to but and have met some great people , so i don't see your point.

[LucisPictor]

[Orio]

[AhamB]

[LucisPictor]

[newton]

[my_photography]

Newton, I do agree with you that prices of MF lenses has increased quite a bit this few years. Like you, I am late into MF lenses. I could have gotten many more cheaper lenses few years ago if I found a forum like this where members are willing to share their knowledge and photos and give honest opinions on MF lenses. I too, am not happy with the situation - the rising price of MF lenses.

Many members here have lot of lenses. My personal opinion and conclusion after joining here for few years, most of the members here don't have deep pockets. There could be a few collectors among the members here, but most are not. Some people might own and are using more exotic lenses but I am happy that in this forum we don't judge someone or any photos with the lens/ cameras they used. I am sure you already realised by now. One of my greatest find here is the Helios 44 families and I do own quite a few. Yes, I do hope one day the price will skyrocket (for my own selfish reason) but highly unlikely because there could be easily millions of copy out there.

[Excalibur]

Hi Newton
Well I don't know what you are complaining about as there are plenty of bargains still around on Ebay, boot sales and sites like UK "gumtree".....you just have to continue looking and usually select the next best lenses from the top ones and also do plenty of reading.
e.g. Everyone recommends a top and fairly expensive lens like a Canon FDn 35mm f2, but it has a sister a Canon FDn 35mm f2.8 that many people pass over, and I doubt you would see much difference in sharpness (but would in your pocket). This is a VG focal length for groups, scenery etc.

e.g.2 A few weeks ago I bought a Yashica 28mm lens for £5 inc postage off the bay and this week bought a Yashica camera FR1 for £11.30 inc recorded postage with 55mm f2 lens, now I'll wager that these two lenses will give results near to top expensive lenses.

etc etc etc

[newton]

Thanks! I got that lens that was badly missing in my set, that elusive lens, but, as you said and I mentioned only after considering other options on eBay and being more patient. I may actually have come out ahead, too, by saving a little. I think this was the point of my thread... Patience!