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ColorChecker Passport
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: ColorChecker Passport Reply with quote
I think this is one of the best purchases I ever made photography wise.
Today the product arrived and it took me one minute (yes I mean 60 seconds, most of which time spent shooting) to make a custom profile for the M9:
take a picture of the board, drag-drop it onto the passport software window, and click the "make profile" button.
I close the passport software, open Lightroom, and the profile is there, ready to be used. The whole process is automated by the software.

And the result? I let you judge by yourself. I present the same picture, taken today near sunset. I developed it in Lightroom using four different profiles:
- camera's own (embedded)
- Adobe Standard (Lightroom's default)
- 3rd party (a 3rd party profile I found on the Internet)
- my own profile (here named Orio ccp)

Here's the four developments in a single picture:



And here's head to head comparisons of my new custom ccp profile vsl the other three:







I forgot to mention, that in all shots, all parameters are the same. White balance is set to 6500 K for all developments.

If you have a "difficult" camera, or a camera that you're not 100% happy with the default profile, I can heartily recommend this tool. It's so simple that even a child could use it.
The results, to my view, are perfect. Or at least, they give me the most faithful rendition of what my eyes could see on location.

_


PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think I may have to invest in one myself -very impressive results Orio. I assume, since you do not say otherwise, that the "Orio" profile is the closest to what you see?


patrickh


PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
patrickh wrote:
I think I may have to invest in one myself -very impressive results Orio. I assume, since you do not say otherwise, that the "Orio" profile is the closest to what you see?
patrickh


Yes, Patrick, definitely closer than the others.
The third party profile is not bad overall, but the roofs have a bit too much magenta than real, and the grass in the background looks strange.
I would say, that if I took the photo right after sunset, instead of right before sunset, than the 3rd party profile would have been perfect. But in the moment I took the photo the tonality was warmer, quite like the custom profile.
Embedded profile is like 3rd party, but worse.
Adobe standard, not even worth commenting about.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you for sharing and I must say the best display of side by side comparisons I have seen.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Mo. This tool has made me understand how sometimes it's vain to put so much attention and money on the cameras and lenses,
when there are tools that we often ignore that can make dramatic difference in our images (and for much less money than cameras or lenses).


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
After some research I discover that this software/hardware really only works with Adobe products (which I do not use). Shame



patrickh


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Orio,
Thanks for sharing - this seems like a nice solution for adjusting the right colours and white balance.

I have a dumb question here.

Are you using this small colour chart as a grey card before every change in lightning conditions ?
So let say you shoot one frame with the chart before you start shooting a session.

When the lightning changes shoot another chart and later at the raw converter apply every set of raw files with the profile created from the charts?

BR,
Stefan


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Last place: Adobe Standard. (How bad is that???)
3rd place: 3rd party
2nd place: embedded
Winner: Orio ccp, definitely!


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
patrickh wrote:
After some research I discover that this software/hardware really only works with Adobe products (which I do not use). Shame
patrickh


I read that there are tutorials around on how to produce colour profile for cameras using any colour chart, Patrick. I have not seen any, but they are mentioned so they should come out from a search.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
std wrote:
Hi Orio,
Thanks for sharing - this seems like a nice solution for adjusting the right colours and white balance.

I have a dumb question here.

Are you using this small colour chart as a grey card before every change in lightning conditions ?
So let say you shoot one frame with the chart before you start shooting a session.

When the lightning changes shoot another chart and later at the raw converter apply every set of raw files with the profile created from the charts?

BR,
Stefan


hi Stefan,
the main difference between a colour profile and setting the white balance is that a colour profile sets colours individually, while white balance shifts them all at a time.

WHile in theory a colour profile should represent the way the camera's sensor works, it should be universal, but in practice, this is not true, because our cameras work differently depending on the light conditions.

So what happens is that camera profiles all usually come with a "bi-illuminated" profile, which is basically two profiles, one taken under cold light, the other under warm light.
Then the processor interpolates between the two values to create intermediate values.

The above is the reason why basically in-camera auto white balance sucks, especially at settings like tungsten or cloudy: the reality is much more complex than a possible interpolation between two values.

So yes, for an ideal performance, one should create a profile at the beginning of every work session. But this is probably an overkill.
I will let you know about my experience, but it is my guess that making 6-8 profiles to cover all basic situations will be enough, and then fine tune done with white balance setting.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like this product because it is protected in a case, for 100$ it is great

embedded : blue sky
3rd party : blue sky
adobe : no sky
Orio: green sky


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
I like this product because it is protected in a case, for 100$ it is great


Laughing
you pay for the software also, don't forget Wink

poilu wrote:

embedded : blue sky
3rd party : blue sky
adobe : no sky
Orio: green sky


that's the point: the sky was not blue.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
you pay for the software also, don't forget

the case is very important for me, I have 3 IT8 card, Kodak cards, gray cards, etc... but I never take them outside to keep them clean


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
Orio wrote:
you pay for the software also, don't forget

the case is very important for me, I have 3 IT8 card, Kodak cards, gray cards, etc... but I never take them outside to keep them clean


Ah... ok, I officially give up trying to understand when you are joking and when you are not Wink


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just an idea Idea :

How would profiles work to get better results out of non-coated or single coated lenses.

Usually old lenses produce a pastel kind of colours due to coating and lower contrast. Some have problems with red tones and you get pinkish results sometimes.

What would happen if you create a profile for your cam and a well-known standard or super lens and then only change the lens and make a second profile.

It would be nice to see if profiling can do a great improvement.

Hope you like this idea.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio

I think the problem is incorporating the profile into your RAW workflow. In the case of PS the profile is kept as preset colour adjustments for the RAW engine (same for LR I believe). This is possible because your new software does the "talking". However, I have discovered that my favourite Bibble allows for the direct incorporation of an actual profile, so I can in fact use this product, and will do so. Thank you


patrickh


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MF-addicted wrote:
Just an idea Idea :

How would profiles work to get better results out of non-coated or single coated lenses.

Usually old lenses produce a pastel kind of colours due to coating and lower contrast. Some have problems with red tones and you get pinkish results sometimes.

What would happen if you create a profile for your cam and a well-known standard or super lens and then only change the lens and make a second profile.

It would be nice to see if profiling can do a great improvement.

Hope you like this idea.


I thought about it too, but that would mean that for every lens you have to make 6-8 profiles (one for sunset, one for midday sunlight, one for midday overcast, etc.),
multiply that for the number of lenses and you realize the thing inflates to pantagruelic proportions Wink


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
patrickh wrote:
Orio
I think the problem is incorporating the profile into your RAW workflow. In the case of PS the profile is kept as preset colour adjustments for the RAW engine (same for LR I believe). This is possible because your new software does the "talking". However, I have discovered that my favourite Bibble allows for the direct incorporation of an actual profile, so I can in fact use this product, and will do so. Thank you
patrickh


Glad to have been of help, Patrick.
In fact ColorChecker Passport has another nice feature: registered users can download a profile manager - it is an application that allows you to manage the profiles, decides what is loaded and what is not - useful when the number of profiles you make becomes too large to be easily handled inside the host application.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For more general information on colour profiling and lens measurements, this is an interesting link:

http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/


patrickh


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I want to compare the original card with a print of the corrected card image.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
I want to compare the original card with a print of the corrected card image.


A print?
That is an entirely different ballpark - with more actors (and more nasty)

The colorchecker passport is, declaredly, only a camera profiling tool. it is supposed to work with your calibrated monitor (and it expects that you do actually calibrate your monitor... it asks for that every time you open the software!)

Printing is a different sport.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
MF-addicted wrote:
Just an idea Idea :

How would profiles work to get better results out of non-coated or single coated lenses.

Usually old lenses produce a pastel kind of colours due to coating and lower contrast. Some have problems with red tones and you get pinkish results sometimes.

What would happen if you create a profile for your cam and a well-known standard or super lens and then only change the lens and make a second profile.

It would be nice to see if profiling can do a great improvement.

Hope you like this idea.


I thought about it too, but that would mean that for every lens you have to make 6-8 profiles (one for sunset, one for midday sunlight, one for midday overcast, etc.),
multiply that for the number of lenses and you realize the thing inflates to pantagruelic proportions Wink


That is true if you want to do it for all lenses.
I am only curious about the resulting image if you do a test side by side in the same light situation.
A simple test with a setup showing subject and color chart and then creating two profiles.
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