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Schneider new SLR lenses!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Schneider new SLR lenses! Reply with quote
Schneider will announce in Photokina two new SLR tilt+shift lenses, 50mm and 90mm.

Now that is some news! Schneider re-entering the small format lenses market !

Maybe times really are a-changing! Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Except they're going to be just as expensive as the Hartblei/Carl Zeiss tilt shift lenses, with the 50mm being 2300€ and 90mm being 2200€.... while I applaud their reentry, I can't see those going anywhere, when you can have the Canon/Nikon equivalents for much cheaper...

The medium format (PhaseOne/Mamiya mount) 120mm f5.6 apo-digitar tilt shift is kind of exciting. 'Course that one is 3900€ :LOL:


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rawhead wrote:
Except they're going to be just as expensive as the Hartblei/Carl Zeiss tilt shift lenses, with the 50mm being 2300€ and 90mm being 2200€.... while I applaud their reentry, I can't see those going anywhere, when you can have the Canon/Nikon equivalents for much cheaper...


Cheaper, for now...
The updated Canon tilt-shift lenses (17 & 24mm) are more than 2000 Euros.
If I remember well, I paid 2150 for my 17mm (what a lens!) and the price has increased recently.
An update is expected for the 45 & 90mm, which I guess will also boost their price.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rawhead wrote:
Except they're going to be just as expensive as the Hartblei/Carl Zeiss tilt shift lenses, with the 50mm being 2300€ and 90mm being 2200€.... while I applaud their reentry, I can't see those going anywhere, when you can have the Canon/Nikon equivalents for much cheaper...


I see them used by people doing product shots in the studio.
Today the only alternative to have top quality tilt-shift lenses with digital shots is to use a digital back for medium or large format. With the prices that you can imagine.
A small studio with a 5D Mark II and a 2200 Eur 90mm Schneider tilt-shift lens would cost around 4500 Euros (or maybe some less) and can make quality product shots without investing a fortune in medium or large format digital equipment.
It's a very good option for low budget studios.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
nkanellopoulos wrote:

Cheaper, for now...
The updated Canon tilt-shift lenses (17 & 24mm) are more than 2000 Euros.
If I remember well, I paid 2150 for my 17mm (what a lens!) and the price has increased recently.
An update is expected for the 45 & 90mm, which I guess will also boost their price.


and... if you have 2200 Euros to spend on a tilt-shift lens... and could choose between a Canon and a Schneider... I would really like to know the one photographer in the world who would choose Canon over Schneider Wink


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
True, I'd choose a Schneider any day, but the expensive ones, the TS-E 17mm and 24mm, are much wider and will be used for completely different tasks (architecture, landscape, etc).


Probably where these 50 & 90mm TSs will shine is in the studio, but if portability isn't an issue then there area lot of alternatives.


If I were a pro and had unlimited funds, then I would purchase

Hasselblad ArcBody
PhaseOne digital back
APO-Grandagon 3 lens kit: 35/45/75mm

for architectural work. For still life, I could even get something larger, like ArcaSwiss 6x9 or even Linhofs, and get Schneider's Macro Apo-Digitars 80/120mm plus a digital back.


While the digital back will make these options more expensive as a total kit than the new Schneider lenses, the odds are, if you're a pro doing the kind of pro photography that would benefit the most from these lenses, you already have one! Very Happy And even if you didn't, for a pro where the initial cost difference isn't such a great issue, that extra 4-5K is going to quickly pay for itself because you have so much more flexibility with such a rig (compared to the 8˚ tilt and 12mm shift of the Schneider lenses). Not to mention the size and quality of the images you'll get through state-of-the-art digital backs compared to FF cameras.

If you're really on a budget, then the current Canon/Nikon offerings are much cheaper ($1200-ish for 45mm and 90mm TS-E new).

So, what I'm trying to say, I guess, is not that the price is outrageous or that they are a ripoff (hardly), but that I don't see exactly who the target audience is.

Like I said, the medium format lens is an interesting one for a pro studio.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rawhead wrote:

So, what I'm trying to say, I guess, is not that the price is outrageous or that they are a ripoff (hardly), but that I don't see exactly who the target audience is.


Small studios trying to cut their way through, meeting studio and models rent costs... freelancers that do a bit of everything for a living, like a wedding one day and a product shot the day after... province studios who work for the little shop... there's a lot of these "gray" situations, where you are neither an established famous professional nor a pennyless amateur... where your customers can not afford to pay the bills that top professionals would request... and so they size down their expectations and so you the photographer size down your investment...
For many low level professionals, beginning professionals, it's not a matter of buying the large format digital back... it's more a matter of how to survive paying for the rent of the studio. If they can do jobs with a EUR 5000 5DMkII + Schneider small lens instead of a EUR 30000 large format digital back + Schneider big lens, they will do it.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
If they can do jobs with a EUR 5000 5DMkII + Schneider small lens instead of a EUR 30000 large format digital back + Schneider big lens, they will do it.



And do you think for those people, the 1400€ difference between the Canon TS-E 90mm (900€ new) and the Schneider (2300€) makes sense?


I'm not saying that such a niche doesn't exist.. it probably does (or else Schneider would be really stupid). It just seems the niche is too small to me. But, what do I know? Smile


I guess one thing the Schneider does have over the Canon, like my Hartblei/Zeiss Superrotatr, is the ability to tilt & shift in independent directions. The Canon it's either fixed at perpendicular or parallel to each other.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
nkanellopoulos wrote:

Cheaper, for now...
The updated Canon tilt-shift lenses (17 & 24mm) are more than 2000 Euros.
If I remember well, I paid 2150 for my 17mm (what a lens!) and the price has increased recently.
An update is expected for the 45 & 90mm, which I guess will also boost their price.


I'm envious! I'm currently weighing my options.. I have the super rottor 35/2.8 (original Ukrainian) and the 80/2.8 (Zeiss version) for my 5D... thinking perhaps I might sell them and just buy the 17mm and do a lot of architectural work with it.


No matter who says what about Canon lenses, nobody can beat them at that focal length... because nobody has anything that even comes close to it Smile)))


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rawhead wrote:

And do you think for those people, the 1400€ difference between the Canon TS-E 90mm (900€ new) and the Schneider (2300€) makes sense?
.


I think so, yes, because they get the Schneider image fingerprint without spending 30000+ on equipment.

It's a similar thing as to us who use Zeiss lenses instead of Canon... we use lenses like the Zeiss 1.4/35 or 1.4/85 or 2/28 for their "fingerprint"... the image quality of Canon primes will be maybe close onseveral aspects (not on coating for sure), but the look of the final image will not be the same.
Clients of product photography are used to see ads made with the Schneider and Rodenstock lenses. The photos of Lancome or Chanel perfumes, of jewelry, of Longines watches.... On a small scale, the Schneider lens (with a little help from Photoshop for the simulation of DOF) is more likely to give an image that "looks like" those ads, than a Canon lens.

Of course the resolution willl stay that of a 5DMkII, and the DOF also (nothing to do with that of a large format), but, for many small works is enough. For instance, 5DMkII gives more than enough resolution for printing the cover of a colour magazine.
Then of course if you need to print a billboard poster, you need a large format... but, small studios are not likely to be asked printing billboard posters Wink


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Clients of product photography are used to see ads made with the Schneider and Rodenstock lenses. The photos of Lancome or Chanel perfumes, of jewelry, of Longines watches....


Ah... that's a world of which I know nothing Very Happy I guess it makes sense.
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