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Suggest me a cheapish, very sharp 50mm in M42
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Suggest me a cheapish, very sharp 50mm in M42 Reply with quote
I realized that the two things I usually need to have in a lens are sharpness and good color rendition (if that makes any sense), and that's probably why I love my Flektogon 35mm f2.4.

The problem is, I've not yet found my "default" 50-55mm lens, despite having tried a few:

* the Helios 44M-6 is one of those I kept, it's sharp and its busy bokeh makes for interesting images, but I'd prefer something slightly faster (even half a stop), and I would not mind having a lens with softer bokeh in addition to the Helios

* my non-EBC Fujnon 55mm 1.8 is strange, as I cannot seem to focus it consistently (or else it has problems), so I stopped using it

* the Super Takumar 50mm 1.4 was too soft wide open, and I could not get myself to like it, so I sold it

* the Pentax M 50mm f1.7 was crisp but a bit too cool for my tastes, I prefer softer colors, and anyway switching from M42 to PK lenses is a bit of a hassle, so I sold that too

I'm waiting for an SMC Takumar 55mm f1.8, and that might turn out to be what I'm looking for. But in case it isn't, have you got any suggestions on what lenses I should look for? I might try to convert a Zuiko, but I'd prefer something that mounts without a lot of work.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
maybe pancolar 50 1.8?

Do you need sharpness at wide open or stopped down. Takumar 50 1.4 is really sharp at optimal studio setings at f8-f12, but is soft wide open as many f1.4 lenses, you should judge it at f1.8 or f2.0


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
egidio wrote:
maybe pancolar 50 1.8?


I will search the forum for examples, any idea how much they go for usually?

Quote:
Do you need sharpness at wide open or stopped down. Takumar 50 1.4 is really sharp at optimal studio setings at f8-f12, but is soft wide open as many f1.4 lenses, you should judge it at f1.8 or f2.0


Wide open, as I typically shoot a 50/55m indoors or in situations where there's little available light.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
50/1.4 Takumar is one of the best M42 50mm lenses. I think the only f/1.4 M42 lens, which is able to outperform it, is Pancolar 55/1.4.

Pancolar 50/1.8 may be a bit sharper at f/1.8, but it has less contrast (compared to S-M-C Tak. 50/1.4; I don't have the Super Tak. at the moment).

I think the sharpest M42 50mm f/1.8 lens Voigtlander Color Ultron 50/1.8 and the sharpest f/1.4 lens is Pancolar 55/1.4 (but this lens use a coating, which causes strong yellow hue... it's also very costly). 2nd place are MC Pancolar 50/1.8 and S-M-C Takumar 50/1.4.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As a film user with many different cameras and 50mms to compare....my Meyer 50mm f1.8 Oreston is very good.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
As a film user with many different cameras and 50mms to compare....my Meyer 50mm f1.8 Oreston is very good.

+1

.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
50/1.4 Takumar is one of the best M42 50mm lenses. I think the only f/1.4 M42 lens, which is able to outperform it, is Pancolar 55/1.4.

Pancolar 50/1.8 may be a bit sharper at f/1.8, but it has less contrast (compared to S-M-C Tak. 50/1.4; I don't have the Super Tak. at the moment).

I think the sharpest M42 50mm f/1.8 lens Voigtlander Color Ultron 50/1.8 and the sharpest f/1.4 lens is Pancolar 55/1.4 (but this lens use a coating, which causes strong yellow hue... it's also very costly). 2nd place are MC Pancolar 50/1.8 and S-M-C Takumar 50/1.4.

Agree. If you want IQ, I refer Pancolor but........ if you ask "cheap" one, SMC Tak 50/1.4 (my copy is not soft at F1.4) or 50/1.8 is good.
My 2 cents, don't limit but get 2 or 3 different 50mm.
Mike


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks to all who replied.

No-X, I'd love a Color Ultron but I think it's out of my budget.

Excalibur, Attila, what do you like in the Oreston, and is the Pentacon 50mm f1.8 the same lens? They seem to go quite cheap and might be an interesting buy.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Super Takumar 55/2 is excellent wide open (presumably because it's really an f1.8 with a permanant stop down in place).


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ludoo wrote:
egidio wrote:
maybe pancolar 50 1.8?


I will search the forum for examples, any idea how much they go for usually?

Quote:
Do you need sharpness at wide open or stopped down. Takumar 50 1.4 is really sharp at optimal studio setings at f8-f12, but is soft wide open as many f1.4 lenses, you should judge it at f1.8 or f2.0


Wide open, as I typically shoot a 50/55m indoors or in situations where there's little available light.

I'm a Pancolar fan too, but I think you should wait till you've tried the Tak 1.8/55. If you're not pleased with that then I don't think the Pancolar will reach your requirements either.

All lenses within your price bracket are going to be sharper closed down 1 or 2 stops. I was taught that, for good definition, lenses should ideally be used near their middle aperture setting and only opened up or closed down when the situation demanded, usually for depth of field or bokeh effects. That's an old fashioned view these days I guess, but with older lenses I think it still holds true. If I'm in a low light situation my first choice is to use a faster film/ISO setting, then a slower shutter speed (with a tripod if necessary). Opening the lens aperture right up to its limit is the final option, when I know I'm going to have to sacrifice some definition.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
I'm a Pancolar fan too, but I think you should wait till you've tried the Tak 1.8/55. If you're not pleased with that then I don't think the Pancolar will reach your requirements either.


Yes I will do that, even though the Pentacon f1.8 seems pretty cheap, and I might give it a try anyway. And I love CZJ lenses and might get a Pancolar sooner or later if it's not too expensive.

Quote:
All lenses within your price bracket are going to be sharper closed down 1 or 2 stops. I was taught that, for good definition, lenses should ideally be used near their middle aperture setting and only opened up or closed down when the situation demanded, usually for depth of field or bokeh effects. That's an old fashioned view these days I guess, but with older lenses I think it still holds true. If I'm in a low light situation my first choice is to use a faster film/ISO setting, then a slower shutter speed (with a tripod if necessary). Opening the lens aperture right up to its limit is the final option, when I know I'm going to have to sacrifice some definition.


I know, but a tripod is not viable in most situations (either I don't have it, or the subject won't hold steady for the slow time required), and my old *istD is already pretty noisy by 800 iso. So I often use my 50mm wide open for candid portraits, which is one of the things I shoot more often.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggest me a cheapish, very sharp 50mm in M42 Reply with quote
ludoo wrote:
I realized that the two things I usually need to have in a lens are sharpness and good color rendition .


Is this sharp enough?



Sears 55/F1.4, fully open, default LR conversion + resize


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggest me a cheapish, very sharp 50mm in M42 Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
Is this sharp enough?


Very nice picture. I like a bit more "bite", but at f1.4 I guess that's almost impossible, and anyway the dreamy look you got is wonderful and I would not mind a similar lens. Smile


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another vote here for the Takumar 55 f2 if what you want is a cheap, pocket size and very sharp 50-55mm. Mine is the SMC version, the first 50-55mm lens I got, and wide open its sharpness is fantastic. It's said to be even sharper than the Tak 50 1.4 at infinity focus (which is supposedly the weaknesses of the 1.4).


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Sears should be a Mamiya Sekor


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My two copies of The pancolar 1,8 are more contrast (very) than my S-M-C.
But they have a greenish cast.

The S-M-C (my copy) isn't soft at center (very sharp at center, some soft at corners and the SMC is one of the lens with less Spherical aberration - 0,02). And is a really sharp from F/4 (at the center) and 5,6 (near 93 pl/mm at center and near 80 pl/mm at corners).

The color ultron, the zeiss planar for rollei, the zeiss planar by rollei, and the C/Y zeiss planar, all have the same formula 7/6 (with the curved first element) not the same curved front element of the icarex zeiss ultron. We can wait that all of the same formula ultron/planar have similar rendition.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you need sharp really try to get a macro lens with M42 mount others are sharp but not very sharp.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BenediktW wrote:
The Sears should be a Mamiya Sekor


There are some minor differences in mechanic construction but optically they are probably identical.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ludoo wrote:


Excalibur, Attila, what do you like in the Oreston, and is the Pentacon 50mm f1.8 the same lens? They seem to go quite cheap and might be an interesting buy.


Well I can post shots taken with a Meyer, but how can you lose.......... buy cheap see if you like it, and if you don't, sell it again or give it to a charity shop. I bought my Meyer for £1 and a Helios 8 blade 44m with Zenit camera for £3 (or it was the other way around).


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
If you need sharp really try to get a macro lens with M42 mount others are sharp but not very sharp.


Yes, but then I won't have a large aperture and it would kind of defeat my purposes. Smile

Excalibur wrote:
Well I can post shots taken with a Meyer, but how can you lose.......... buy cheap see if you like it, and if you don't, sell it again or give it to a charity shop. I bought my Meyer for £1 and a Helios 8 blade 44m with Zenit camera for £3 (or it was the other way around).


Sometimes I wish I lived in the UK or US, nothing here costs 1£ except a cup of coffee...


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ludoo wrote:
Excalibur wrote:
Well I can post shots taken with a Meyer, but how can you lose.......... buy cheap see if you like it, and if you don't, sell it again or give it to a charity shop. I bought my Meyer for £1 and a Helios 8 blade 44m with Zenit camera for £3 (or it was the other way around).


Sometimes I wish I lived in the UK or US, nothing here costs 1£ except a cup of coffee...


You have all that sunny weather why don't you have boot sales like this:-

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/chakrata/minoltaPS920.jpg

WOW just checked ebay and they are going for silly prices now, last year at the boot sales there were plenty of Helios lenses in junk boxes going for £1-£2, I think I'll look out for ones with serial numbers starting with 00 (apparently made for commie VIPs).


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
You have all that sunny weather why don't you have boot sales like this:-


Sunny weather? In Milan? Shocked

We have a couple flea markets, but they're the kind where you find a) instamatic cameras, b) broken Kievs full of mold and fungus for 70 euro, c) plastic cameras. My best buy in a year and half has been a Super Silette with Solinar lens with a stuck shutter and cloudy vf for 15 euros.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ludoo wrote:
a tripod is not viable in most situations (either I don't have it, or the subject won't hold steady for the slow time required), and my old *istD is already pretty noisy by 800 iso. So I often use my 50mm wide open for candid portraits, which is one of the things I shoot more often.

I guess you can't do much about moving subject in candid shots! Smile Have you tried using flash?


PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ludoo wrote:
Excalibur wrote:
You have all that sunny weather why don't you have boot sales like this:-


Sunny weather? In Milan? Shocked

We have a couple flea markets, but they're the kind where you find a) instamatic cameras, b) broken Kievs full of mold and fungus for 70 euro, c) plastic cameras. My best buy in a year and half has been a Super Silette with Solinar lens with a stuck shutter and cloudy vf for 15 euros.



Well I can't understand why every country doesn't have boot sales.......easy peasy just need some group to find a friendly farmer or car park not used or any piece of land, and pay for use of that land for a day. Sellers and buyers are charged because the land has to be paid for plus staff for clearing up the rubbish left behind, directing traffic etc.
Sellers pay from £6-£12 and buyers 50p-£2...the £2 is for first in early, to get first pick.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Mamiya Sekor 50mm/2 lenses are very sharp. The older ones have an auto-manual aperture switch (like that of Super Takumar lenses).

See:
http://freenet-homepage.de/stauber/mamiya-nc/m42_mamiya_50_2_dtl_ii.htm
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