Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 1:5,6/135 (1:12 / 235)

[claesh]

Hi,

Late last year as I passed by a camera shop that was closing down, I went in to see if they had any enlarger lenses with longer focal lengths.
I have a Canon FL Bellows, that I have been using with my El-Nikkor 50 2.8 enlargement lens and Canon EOS 400 D for macro photography. (You can see some images here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fl-bellows-el-nikkor-50-2-8-t17222.html)

However, this has restricted me with quite short working distance so I was looking for a lens that would allow me more distance. In the shop I found this Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 135 / 5.6 (in green: 1:12 / 235). The back-end part of it has text in green "12/235" and as I understand it it can be used both as 135 mm and 235 mm? However, if I unscrew the back end part, the aperture has no glass behind it and can be touched with my fingers.




Is anyone familiar with this lens? I haven't figured out what the screw mount dimensions are, it is more narrow than the 39 mm I have for my other enlargement lenses.

[kds315*]

Some data:
http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/fachoptik_e.pdf

[claesh]

After some googling I start to doubt this actually is an enlargement lens. Evidence points more in the direction of large format lens...?

[kds315*]

yes, pretty evident from the docu, ehh...

[womble]

It is for a 5x4 view camera. I am not familiar with that particular lens, but normally they split in two to allow the shutter and the lens board to be fitted. Schneider Kreuznach make quite a few LF lenses. I have a Schneider Kreuznach Super Angulon 90mm f/8 for my Horseman LF camera.

Best wishes, Kris.

[luisalegria]

It seems a fairly modern lens in barrel, which is unusual for a large format camera of recent times as mostly these are set in shutters.

Barrel lenses like these were mostly used for large format reflex cameras of an earlier time. The last major uses of barrel lenses were for specialized cameras like bulk portrait equipment (Camerz, Beattie-Coleman, etc.) or for reprographics/process.

Its very likely this is a reprographics/process lens (used in pre-press work in specialized cameras)

[claesh]

Yes, I find it hard to find information about exactly this lens, seems rare. The datasheets I have found have not made me certain that they describe exactly this. The closest I have found is an ended ebay auction

http://cgi.ebay.de/Schneider-Kreuznach-Sinar-Symmar-5,6%2F135-mm_W0QQitemZ200441439146QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100221?IMSfp=TL100221128006r39894

The best I can tell is that it has something called "Schneider 0" mount. I think I need an adapter like this for me to mount it
to my bellows:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/46485-REG/Schneider_92_010711_0_to_Leica_Mount.html

If it is not a true enlarger lens, it might not be as useful for macro photography using bellows and DSLR?

[luisalegria]

The Symmar is apparently very good for close-focus work. Camera Eccentric has plenty of useful old brochures and catalogs -

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/schneider_7.html

Interesting note there - the Symmar is good for 1:1 reproduction as is, but for best results beyond 1:1 they recommend it be mounted reversed. This is common advice for many lenses.

Also the 235mm f/12 is achieved using the REAR group only. So one would remove the front group.

[luisalegria]

I think you have solved the mystery.

Sinar (maker of expensive view cameras) has long sold behind-the-lens shutter systems that they claim are more convenient than the shutters most view camera lenses come in. So one could use barrel lenses with these if they are adapted to the Sinar mount.

http://www.johndesq.com/pinhole/manual/sinarbooster2.pdf

You may have part of a Sinar DB mount there with your lens.

[wilson.c]

Great find!! There should be a removable threaded black ring just behind the chrome bit of the lens and in front of the removable rear element. That secures the lens to the lens board.

It it refers to 'Schneider 0' mount may be just the size of a #0 lens board which should be 35mm in diameter. If that's the case you can probably use a spare CanonFD body cap to make the 35mm hole and secure it to your bellows.

Regards,

[claesh]

It feels weird to remove either front or rear element since it will expose the aperture to the "outside". There is no "middle" element that protects the aperture. I don't think I have seen that in a lens before. On the other hand, I have never seen this kind of lens close before either.

New image shows there are three parts of this lens, front rear and "middle", containing only aperture, no glass:



Thanks for all the comments, you have been very helpful.

[luisalegria]

Thats been the normal construction for these types of lens for more than 100 years. If the lens is in shutter, the front and rear cells screw into the shutter unit which also has the diaphragm.

Yours is "in barrel" which means it has a diaphragm only, no shutter.

[womble]

I hope this doesn't seem like stealing your thread, but here are some images of my Super Angulon showing a similar construction. The main difference is the lack of shutter for yours.

Front:


Back:


With rear elements showing closed leaf shutter:


Ditto, but leaf shutter open:


In pieces showing the front element with shutter attached, rear element and the locking ring:


Hope this helps! Kris.

[womble]

There is also some information on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Kreuznach#Symmar

K.

[claesh]

No, did not feel like stealing the thread at all. Most useful, this is an area of photography I was not familiar with but I am eager to learn

[womble]

I am only a beginner at large format photography but it is something I am learning slowly and enjoying. Biggest problems (for me, personally) are getting the films developed and getting about (I rely on a motorcycle for transport!). Playing with all the shifts, tilts and swings is very pleasing.

Best wishes, Kris.