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Introduction + question: how to test mf lenses
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Introduction + question: how to test mf lenses Reply with quote
Hello everybody,
I'm a reader for about a year, always enjoying the shared knowledge of this forum. Thanks to you all, I was able for the past 12 months to start with (what was supposed to be) a cheap hobby. Well, you all can guess what happened....

In short: bought too many lenses, and finally last month (!) got a camera to use them with.

Among the lenses: some Takumars, Jupiters, Yashica ML's to name a few. The camera is a Canon 10D. Still have to test all the lenses, and find a focussing screen for the camera (any suggestions?).

However, I don't know if there is a special set-up for testing lenses, or special subjects that are better for judging the quality of a lens.

So, if you could help me out, I'd be very grateful.

I have to tell you that I am just a beginner, knowing the basis of different ISO-settings, aperture and shutter speed. Everything more than that is more or less Chinese for me.

If there are people from Belgium/The Netherlands perhaps willing to take some pics together, or testing each others equipment, or help each other out with a problem, don't hesitate to pm me.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi there and welcome aboard,

Seems like you caught the bug in a big way, nothing to be worried about - it's happened to many of us!

Personally, when testing lenses, I tend to use the same item(s) in the same place (for me, this is my back yard and the things that are in it), this way I can see quite easily differences/nuances/defects or issues with lenses.

There are several more scientific methods of testing lenses, in my case though, I use my eyes and the computer LCD!

By the way, hope you enjoy the Yashica ML 2/50mm when it arrives with you Wink


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Damn keyboard Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Last edited by indianadinos on Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi, welcome to the forum and enjoy your stay ...

My LBA started almost as yours: bought camera first, then some M42s, finally got the adapter almost three months later ...

Anyway, for what concerns the lens tests: i suppose you are not employed by a photo magazine, with a lab full of instruments ... Here's what i do when buying a new "toy" ...

At first, some shots at home, with the camera on the tripod, aiming at some small objects (a green apple of glass, a Barcino elephant, some jewels borrowed from my friend, my watch) to check the sharpness and the color rendering (Barcino animals are great for this) ... Eventually, some shots with a greyscale card ...

Then, out to the public garden, with flowers, ducks, peacocks and the like, to test some bokeh (flowers are great models for this) and CA correction (try with a white flower on a dark background during a sunny day) ... Also, some sculptures backlighted, kind of testing the resistance to flare and the kind of flare you could get when aiming at strong lights (sometimes, these reflections are nice to see) ...

All this with the camera set at 100 ISO (i almost never use more than this) ... and a lot of patience Wink ...

Last (but not least Wink ), try your favourite subjects, to try to understand how the lens renders the image ... If it is not clear what i mean here, get two Flektogons 35 (the f/2.4 and the old f/2.8 ) and take two pictures of the same subject with the same f/stop: you will immediately understand the differences between the two 35mm ...

My 2c

Cheers


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Poor boy... Crying or Very sad

So you too got caught in this madness forum.
Don't look too hard for the exit. I did and am so exhausted that i can't breathe. It's annoying because when I stop to walk around here, I play with old lenses full of dust wich, too, catch my breathe. This is a vicious circle and it's too late to evade...

Please, go away, go away as it is still possible.................

Welcome to the forum, brother. Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
welcome aboard
to test a lens, check if both side have the same sharpness
further test doesn't matter, you will be happy with any lens until you find a better one


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for your fast replies.

Guess I forgot to mention something (and now it's getting really insane): I am a bit of colorblind.

I can see all colors, except for subtle changes (or even bigger changes - hell I cannot see it) and my way for judging lenses would be "do I like the colors".

Thanks for all the tips: now, the hobby can begin...

@Mal1905: hope to see it coming really soon. Am working now with a 50/1.9, and colors look so nice to me. Can't wait to see the results for the 2.0.

@indianadinos: I guess we are all the same, or kind of the same. when one gets bitten, bring up the GAS (in guitar speeking terms: gear acquiring syndrome - I think on this forum there is an equal expression which just slips my mind)

@Olivier: trop tard!!!! It has gotten me. And my flesh was/is weak.....


BTW: I like to photograph lightning, sun beams when coming through a thick pack of clouds, and do some night photography.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
welcome to the forum, coby!

and...

youngcoby wrote:
Guess I forgot to mention something (and now it's getting really insane): I am a bit of colorblind.


...welcome to the club! Crying or Very sad


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I read somewhere that there is a lot more colour blind people that one may think. I learned it is a genetical trait that is passed to sons/daughters through the mothers (but don't ask me how or why). One of my aunts is colour blind and his son (my cousin) is too.
But photography is more fair than life, it gives black and white, that everyone can enjoy!

As for testing MF lenses... don't. Just use them doing the photos that you like. After a while, the selection will come natural.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
I read somewhere that there is a lot more colour blind people that one may think. I learned it is a genetical trait that is passed to sons/daughters through the mothers (but don't ask me how or why). One of my aunts is colour blind and his son (my cousin) is too.
But photography is more fair than life, it gives black and white, that everyone can enjoy!

As for testing MF lenses... don't. Just use them doing the photos that you like. After a while, the selection will come natural.


it's all just a question of viewpoint. nobody would say that a bee is color blind! Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
supahmario wrote:

it's all just a question of viewpoint. nobody would say that a bee is color blind! Laughing


True Smile
Besides, I enjoy a lot going to exhibitions with my aunt. She loves arts just as me, and as we walk through, sometimes she asks me how is really this or that colour, and I have to describe it. It's interesting, her questions make me more aware of what I am seeing, and force me to analyze and put into words.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"special subjects that are better for judging the quality of a lens"

Seagulls

Ok, I'm joking. Any subject is perfectly fine as long as it has enough detail of the sort you want to compare, and you can easily repeat the subject and conditions for all lenses. Some people use patterns on paper, some use brick walls, some use cats, I use seagulls.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,

youngcoby wrote:

@indianadinos: I guess we are all the same, or kind of the same. when one gets bitten, bring up the GAS (in guitar speeking terms: gear acquiring syndrome - I think on this forum there is an equal expression which just slips my mind)


Here this disease is called LBA (Lens Buying Addiction), and its MF variant is the most dangerous one Wink ...

Be carefult to your bank account before it's too late ...

Welcome aboard


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome aboard....we are on the same train I'm afraid. My LBA is older but not diminished in any way!! LOL You'll get used to it and like it before long. LOL Anyway...Here is how I like testing my lenses. These are the same photo but 2 are crops to see how good the lens delivers detail. This was taken with a Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 screw mount lens and a K10D Pentax lens. Also the white feathers are good to see possible CA.





Also a good way to look at Bokeh. Never mind the "experts" as I've found many so-called poor lens that give me a smile every time I use them. That is how I judge a lens in the end. Does it make me happy. With an emphasis on the ME!! LOL Have fun....I know you will.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Each probably has his/her own method for testing a lens, but basically to me (just an enthusiast photog) a good lens is one that is both sharp and doesn't distort or produce much CA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration). I don't really care that much about vignetting, as it is easy to remove and in many cases also enhances the image (IMO). To me, photographing is not about pixel-peeping - much more about the general vibe a picture delivers.

Once you get an adapter and start using your lenses, you will also start seeing the differences. Some render more vibrant colors than others, some produce a whole lot of barrel distortion etc. You will need a M42 adapter too, and you might want to buy both a mechanical adapter (ie. without correcting glass) and one optical (ie. with glass) for getting focus to infinity.

Personally, using a Nikon D80 and both a mechanical and optical adapter, I have had to study and learn the way each of your M42 lenses behave, or, "breathe" as, for example, the focusing isn't quite accurate when using an adapter and the regular focusing screen of your DSLR. Getting a split prism focusing screen (for example, a KatzEye) might help you, but personally I haven't changed mine since I like the challenge a M42 manual lens provides.

After that, you can start doing performance tests where you test for distortion, CA, vignetting etc.

Point being: learn your lens before going out in the field for the real deal :-)


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome.

Only recently am I starting to test the lens I have. (I only had one maybe two manual lens prior joining this forum). My friend is not scientific at all. I just take the lens I am interested out and shoot at the same sceneray. So far, I only tested at their maximum aperture. I like bokeh and sharpness so that is the thing I am testing. I know sharpness and maximum aperture don't come hand in hand.

Don't worry to much about color insensitive towards some of the colors. Treat it just like different brand of cameras, lens, films are built to react differently towards different color. Just like there Zeiss lenses produces different color compared to Leica lenses or color produced by Fuji film different from Kodak film.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Introduction + question: how to test mf lenses Reply with quote
Most people have no opportunity to test a lens before they own it. Almost any decently functioning lens can give excellent results under the right conditions; if you like the results, what do you gain by testing?


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Introduction + question: how to test mf lenses Reply with quote
ramiller500 wrote:
Most people have no opportunity to test a lens before they own it.

This is why we look at photos taken by others with other copy of the lens. We have various sections in the forum for this purpose.


Quote:
Almost any decently functioning lens can give excellent results under the right conditions; if you like the results, what do you gain by testing?

Each lens have their own characteristics. Some outshine others in certain area or circumstances. One of the reason why we test lens is to find the lens strong point and also weakness. We want to use its strength but avoid its weakness.

By the way, welcome to the board.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wlecome to the forum. Enjoy your stay!

Test the lenses for scenarios and situations you plan to use them in.
Doesn't make any sense to test a lens with pictures that you will never shoot with this particular lens. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Introduction + question: how to test mf lenses Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote
"...Test the lenses for scenarios and situations you plan to use them in.
Doesn't make any sense to test a lens with pictures that you will never shoot with this particular lens"

I agree that the lens should be tried out to determine its suitability for its intended uses, but I don't feel that a formal test protocol is normally needed, especially when the images will not be blown up to high magnifications.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome!
For me, a good lens is one that allows me to take good pictures, at least pictures that I like myself.
For that reason it's not only about sharpness, flare and aberations. It's also about how easy the lens is to handle. If it for instance has some odd non-intuitive pre-set function I might miss a shot grabbing for some small switch on the lens. It all depends on ones specific shooting habits and preferences.
I think Orios advise is excellent. Use the lenses and the favorites will emerge by themselves.

If I really want to compare lenses, a brick wall can be uesful. Good for checking sharpness and some aberations.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Introduction + question: how to test mf lenses Reply with quote
ramiller500 wrote:
LucisPictor wrote
"...Test the lenses for scenarios and situations you plan to use them in.
Doesn't make any sense to test a lens with pictures that you will never shoot with this particular lens"

I agree that the lens should be tried out to determine its suitability for its intended uses, but I don't feel that a formal test protocol is normally needed, especially when the images will not be blown up to high magnifications.


I have done those "formal" test and believe me they do not tell you a lot. They might tell you about the resolution at a certain distance or so.
Some lenses behave better in a distance of, say, 3m. So they seem to be better than others. These other lenses, however, can be better when used at infinity settings. You know what I mean?
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