Need help making decision about Folding Cameras

[gearsNcogs]

I've been interested in getting into both medium format photography, and using a rangefinder, so when i found relatively cheap (at least, compared to most other cameras i've seen) cameras that combine both of those ideas, i'm definitely tempted. I thought i'd come and ask your opinions on the two cameras, and advice as to which i should buy (provided of course, that everything works as it should). It may be worth mentioning that I found both of them at Foto Skoda in Prague (which is hopefully a reputable dealer, so the cameras will work fine).
The first one is the Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta A
The price printed in the picture is in Czech Krona, and is roughly equal to $110 USD


The other one appears to be a Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera Skopar, but i'm not entirely sure of the exact model. the price translates to roughly $100 USD.

They've both been pretty well used, but i don't particularly care about how worn in the camera is as long as it works. The biggest differences i've noticed are that the Voiglander's lens is slower and longer, and that it shoots 6x9 where the Ikonta shoots 6x4.5 Basically what i'm asking is whether one is known to be a better camera, or better value (again, providing they are both working properly)? Does one use a widely available kind of film and another a more obscure one? Any information and advice at all would really be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[Spotmatic]

The Voigtlander is an Inos II, at least that's what it says on the price tag

Both should be able to deliver excellent results. Although the Ikonta has a rangefinder and the Inos does not. But is the seller sure that the rangefinder is spot on?

Personally I'd go for the Ikonta, if both cameras are in a working condition, despite the smaller format. However the Ikonta definitely has a higher resale value. Optically they should be on par (both are 4 element lenses).

[luisalegria]

The Inos can be found for less on ebay, though it may take some time to find one as they were not that common.

I have one myself, but with bad bellows, that I got for about $10 last year. I think I can change the bellows with one from another camera.

The Ikonta price seems to be close to or less than the common ebay price for this camera. It all depends on condition.

The lenses should be about the same, they are both Tessars.

Its much easier to use the Ikonta I would think, particularly close-up and wide open, as you will not be guessing the range.

[Attila]

Both are pretty old, I have dozen of folders and quite experienced with them. I think better to ask a bit more question to help to make a right decision than pickup any of these.

What is your goal with MF camera ? What would you like to shoot mostly ?

[gearsNcogs]

[Attila]

For landscape , cityscape don't need built in RF without doubt , because all shoots will make at infinity distance. Without coupled RF camera prices at least 50 % less or even more at same IQ.

If you would like to shoot some portrait , an inexpensive 10-15 USD ultrasonic distance meter is fine.
So you still pickup less wanted type folders and save $$$.

For street candids a coupled RF is essential in my opinion , but you can take more expensive camera at any time later.

In my experience best folder cameras are latest ones , made around 1950-60.

MOST IMPORTANT THING !! Get a working one , even if looks works , shutter can be slow, bellow has leaks etc.

If you buy it in shop all trouble can be possible and if you can't return it you will have an unusable camera....

Even best well maintained folders fastest speed usually slow , not always but mostly.

For example if your selected camera has 1/250 label you will be happy if it perform at least 1/125...

I suggest to buy a film tested camera from photographer to avoid disappointment.

Another way buy a shutter tester from member vfmoto (15 USD) and measure real speed and count it when you shoot.
When you go to shop to buy a camera, bring with your self a led tourch to check bellow leaks.
Set camera to 1 sec if it works all above speed will works, but chance is high above 1/50 they will be not accurate. (shutter tester as I wrote above)

Even if everything ok and fine , result will be dissapointed if folder camera not keep lens parallel well with film and film pressure plate not keep film flat. Check both!


Finally my recommendation from those camera what I know.


Bellow 100 USD

Agfa Isolette (bellow notorius for leaks) easy to fix with a tape usually.

Image quality is stunning good as than 400-550 USD priced Suoer Ikonta IV.

Franka , Welta, Konica , Konishiroku all are very good.

Iskra, Moskva hard to get working one, but image IQ is great
Zeiss Ikonta, (Novar Anastigmat) some of them crap some of them stunning.

Above 100 USD

Basically all camera with RF some of them coupled , some of them not.
Voigtlander Bessa RF Skopar, Heliar awesome
Voigtlander Bessa I Vaskar, Color-Skopar NO RF

Voigtlander Bessa II Color-Skopar ,Color-Heliar expensive
Welta Weltur (best one , awesome IQ, built quality)
Zeiss Super-Ikonta expensive

http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/6x4_5/
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/6x6-folder/
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/6x9_folder_camera/

[Nesster]

FWIW, and understand that I'm a bottom feeder in these things, these both look to be pre-war cameras. In general I've had better luck with the 6x6 or 6x9 than with 6x4.5... Specifically with Voigtlander, odds are that you'll get a 'vintage' rather than 'modern' look - however, the Inos was a top end camera unlike the Bessa, so the result may be better. The Inos is somewhat rare and thus probably carries a small premium, but nothing like a Supe Ikonta does.

Summary of my pre-war Skopars: Bessa 66 has a superb lens. Rollfilmkamera 6x9 has potential but I've never been able to get it into good focus collimation, and I've cleaned the shutter twice as it is too 'strong' and I believe causes shake. The Bessa 6x9 Skopar gives a vintage look. My '50s Bessa I with the triplet is excellent, by the way.

Oh yes, I should mention that with pre-war lenses, often after all these years the triplets outperform the 4 element lenses, unless the 4 elements are in really good shape and aligned in the right way.

With the Zeiss, my results with a non Super Ikomat/Ikonta 520 Tessar have so far been 'vintage', though I think I may need to do some more adjustments and cleaning. Sharp, but very low contrast. Again, this Super Ikonta is a top end camera and thus the lens may be better, though both are marked Tessar.

Both cameras can be used for people, but you have to throw all your crutches away and be bold! Pre-focus, zone focus, go with the flow, and you'll get some shots. For more formal, slow portrait sort of things, yes, a range finder or a measuring tape are essentials - unless you develop your ability to read distance.