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textures : film vs digital - with samples
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: textures : film vs digital - with samples Reply with quote
I believe that negative record more details than digital
most think that negative details is just noise
I show you a fuji 200 asa negative with little grain

film vs digital (tessar 45mm on film vs distagon 28mm on digital)
1 euro fuji negative 200 asa - 100 asa digital 40D


compare full frame film border vs crop digital






PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reminds me of some of the analog vs. digital discussions in audio... I think we can see/hear into the analog noise below the 'noise floor', whereas with digital there are hard cut-offs in both directions. In fact both with digital audio and photography they add dither or small noise in order to extend the apparent range.

My experience has been that with digital it's easier to get to a damn good level, but when everything goes right with film that's even better. But so many things can go wrong along the way with film...

I think you illustrate this pretty well Smile ... um not in the 'go wrong' direction either Wink


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have you applied sharpening in the digital shot?
If no, you might be able to work out more details.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Have you applied sharpening in the digital shot?
If no, you might be able to work out more details.


My Olympus E-1 produced crappy pictures with default sharpening set. I had increase sharpening in camera to get acceptable result. I saw close result to film only from 5D II.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In this comparison, digital has two handicaps:

1) the AA filter (which needs to be compensated by some sharpening)

2) the smaller format (full frame against APS-C

I think that comparing film with a 5D with some sharpnening applied, would give closer results.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Have you applied sharpening in the digital shot?
If no, you might be able to work out more details.

I applied sharpening then resize by 75%
The problem with film is that sharpening make grain more apparent and details can be assimilated as noise
Here is a sample extra sharpened; you can find more details in the film sample even if digital appear as sharp
On a lcd, grain is bad looking but on paper, it is invisible
digital - digital extra sharpened - film extra sharpened


Orio wrote:
I think that comparing film with a 5D with some sharpnening applied, would give closer results

I don't have a 5D to verify it but I am persuaded that film have better border
One reason I still shot film is that I don't have digital FF
I hope I will not stop using film when I get a 5DII or III


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu

Very thought-provoking. Even though it is extremely unlikely that I will pay out the necessary extra for a film capability, your samples do make one stop and consider...


patrickh


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I think that in the end, it is not so important who's got the edge on detail, don't you think?

I use both digital and the film, and I love them both. And I'll keep using both Smile


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Well, I think that in the end, it is not so important who's got the edge on detail, don't you think?

Yes, it can seem like a theoretical debate but I often find digital samples flat
this is one of your 5D crop (as I don't have any 5D, I put this sample)
I can spot a lot of washed out surface without detail like in my 40D sample
maybe not everybody is a pixel peeper, but for me it is more than a theoretical debate
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8217/det1343aez6.jpg


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hehe... you're a smart orator Wink

Yes, in this shot of course you are right... but you should also say, it's overexposed Wink

But would you repeat the same judgement in front of this image? Wink
http://www.oriofoto.net/temp/disty.jpg

-


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
But would you repeat the same judgement in front of this image?

wow! very colorful. is this a 100% crop
but I still prefer the out of focus textures of film, I found them more natural


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
In this comparison, digital has two handicaps:

1) the AA filter (which needs to be compensated by some sharpening)

2) the smaller format (full frame against APS-C

I think that comparing film with a 5D with some sharpnening applied, would give closer results.


3) bayer filter (1/3 of color data is photographed, 2/3 are created by interpolation)


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
...but I still prefer the out of focus textures of film, I found them more natural


Yes, this is a point where I agree.

But Orio is right, the 5D gives a lot more details compared to my 40D, it looks more crispy, seems to hold more details inside, perhaps it's the much weaker - and in my opinion better - AA-Filter.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Orio wrote:
In this comparison, digital has two handicaps:

1) the AA filter (which needs to be compensated by some sharpening)

2) the smaller format (full frame against APS-C

I think that comparing film with a 5D with some sharpnening applied, would give closer results.


3) bayer filter (1/3 of color data is photographed, 2/3 are created by interpolation)

And that's why sharpenig (esp. after resizing) is necessary.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like more Digital images in the B&W word.

As I can see in my monitor, the digital images have not the feel in texture like the film ones have. And this sensation increased to me in the color pics. I prefer B&W digital image over the color ones.

Rino.
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