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Best budget lightmeter?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Best budget lightmeter? Reply with quote
Hi!
I've just started experimenting with some SLR and Middle Format cameras but in some of them the light meter doesn't work and in others, I think I just cannot trust the reading from the inside light meter. So I was thinking in buying a light meter. However, there are lots of models and don't know which one to buy. I'm lloking for something simple, easy and if possible, cheap, because I don't want to spend more in a light meter than with a camera or lens.

Any help Smile?

Thank you very much guys!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Best budget lightmeter? Reply with quote
cilinderman wrote:
cheap, because I don't want to spend more in a light meter than with a camera or lens.


Cheap depends on item, for example $1400 for Nikkor 28/1.4 is a steal but then again, $1400 is not "cheap"

How much exactly in EUR/USD is this limit of yours? It would help in nailing options suitable for you Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I didn't mean cheap maybe, I want a "usable" piece of equipment, just to do ambient readings I think. I just need a light meter to do "well exposed" shots with a SLR and one TLR. It's so simple that I'm cracking my head too much. Do you think that buying a good lightmeter is a good long term investment?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Best budget lightmeter? Reply with quote
cilinderman wrote:
I don't want to spend more in a light meter than with a camera or lens.


This is understandeable Smile but it's a mistake.
A light meter is by far the most important photographic tool that you can buy, even if in the digital age, it might not seem so true.
When taking snapshots it is not so important, but as soon as you want to make some posed photography in difficult situations (does not mean studio necessarily, also a landscape can be difficult sometimes), it becomes essential.

Things to look for in a light meter:

- it must at least take the two basic tipes of reading, reflected and incident (most do)

- ideal is if it can also take spot reading (but this raises price a lot usually)

- a very useful feature is the contrast reading ability: you make a first reading on an average zone, then with the button pressed you move the meter around and it shows the difference in stop values + or -.
This lets you know the dynamic range in the scene. Knowing that you can normally cover from 5 to 7 zones (out of 10 total) depending on the media that you use, you can immediately figure out if and how much you are going to lose detail and lets you place the exposure accordingly.
Usually contrast reading is featured only on recent light meters.

- some advanced meters also make average exposure calculation for you. This can be useful for some, but I prefer to figure out the calculation myself.

- brand is not irrelevant. Gossen meters have never let me down and always displayed very precise values. Other brands like Sekonic do not seem to me as accurate (although still useable). I would, personally speaking, spend more and stick with the best brands.

Especially when using film, a good light meter is a vital investment. Better to have a good one that makes you take your best pictures, than to save on a cheap one that makes you take wrong pictures for years.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just a real life example that lets you understand what the difference can be.
At the darkroom course that I am taking, there was a guy with a big Sekonic meter (a nice model). I had my Gossen meter. we made the same readings or reflected light and there was always a difference of half stop or 2/3 stop, in one case also about one stop difference.
We are speaking of good models, not cheap models.
We compared with the Minolta meter of the teacher, and it turned out that his meter was always off, while mine was always spot on.

I then tried my meter with the grey card (reflected) and compared with incident reading, and they were identical. It would have been interesting to see what that guy's meter would have done in the comparison, but he didn't make it.

P.S. I don't want to imply that all Sekonic meters are bad. But there can be copy variation in meters as well not only in lenses. Also, the guy might have used batteries that were not so fresh. One thing that you will want to do with your light meter, take care to change batteries often.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 on the Gossen.

You do not have to pay a lot of money, as the best meters from a few years ago are pretty well depreciated (the same story as with lenses).

Anyone may have special needs or abilities, but most of the time the simple reflected/incident type is sufficient. The various Luna Luxes and Pros (and whatever other trade name they used) are all excellent afaik. The dials usually have zone markings as well.

The one thing to check is what type of battery the thing uses, you want one that uses currently available and cheap ones.


With a bit of shopping one of the Luna * models should be very cheap indeed. I paid $25 for my Luna Lux SBC, but then it came with a free Bessa 66 Laughing


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was more thinking what is the money limit you want to spend...

cilinderman wrote:
Do you think that buying a good lightmeter is a good long term investment?


I definitely think so. I've been very satisfied with my Voigtländer VC Meter II, but it is a little on the expensive side. Less expensive and equally good options exist.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Buy any cheap film camera body with working light meter like Praktica 5B or similar what is working with alkaline battery. Cost around 10 GBP and works perfectly, use this cam for measure lights.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila, most cheap cameras are not equipped to meter correctly a scene like this one:



A camera with a normal centre-weighted average metering is going to fail the reading of this and similar scenes.
What's more, he's going to use film, so no chance to recover errors with RAW.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

What's more, he's going to use film, so no chance to recover errors with RAW.


That's why I really want a lightmeter. Photos must be superbly exposed Very Happy.
I'll look for some of the Gossen models. Which ones do you recommend? For getting something new I thought about the Digisix...

Thanks for all your support!

P.S: What a great avatar Orio!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cilinderman wrote:

That's why I really want a lightmeter. Photos must be superbly exposed Very Happy.


First thing you sohuld get familiar with the basics of light metering with a hand meter. No need to buy books but a few web readings can help. This is the first one that came up with google:

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Guide-to-using-a-handheld-light-meter-4748

Make friend especially with the incident reading, which is something that people who only used cameras to meter light are usually not familiar about. Incident reading is a very powerful tool.

Quote:
I'll look for some of the Gossen models. Which ones do you recommend? For getting something new I thought about the Digisix...


I have no direct experience but judging from the specs, to purchase new I would spend a little more and get a Digiflash, for two reasons:
- it will also meter flashes
- it offers contrast reading which is very helpful for scenes like the patio above (and which the Digiflash does not offer)

Quote:
P.S: What a great avatar Orio!


thanks Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Whatever you do, make sure you don't end up with a meter that uses batteries that are no longer available. A lot of older meters used a PX13 (or something like that) mercury cell, which has no modern counterpart. Other old meters used selenium cells instead of batteries, which is a nice idea but the cells are often dead. I've got a working (selenium) Weston II from the 1950s, but its area of coverage is very broad (and Weston Units aren't quite the same as ISO). Another problem, pre-1960, is that the ISO scale was changed so even a correctly set meter will give a reading that doesn't match today's figures.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PaulC wrote:
Whatever you do, make sure you don't end up with a meter that uses batteries that are no longer available. A lot of older meters used a PX13 (or something like that) mercury cell, which has no modern counterpart. Other old meters used selenium cells instead of batteries, which is a nice idea but the cells are often dead. I've got a working (selenium) Weston II from the 1950s, but its area of coverage is very broad (and Weston Units aren't quite the same as ISO). Another problem, pre-1960, is that the ISO scale was changed so even a correctly set meter will give a reading that doesn't match today's figures.


Thanks for the advice! That's really important!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Think about Sverdlovsk4, it is very cheap and is suitable to meter correctly also for positive materials like Velvia, which needs to be exposed very accurately. It has also spot metering, which is imho important. But at last, everything is in your hands and experience, so try and learn:)


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Attila, most cheap cameras are not equipped to meter correctly a scene like this one:



A camera with a normal centre-weighted average metering is going to fail the reading of this and similar scenes.
What's more, he's going to use film, so no chance to recover errors with RAW.


I able to make mistake with any light meter Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Attila, most cheap cameras are not equipped to meter correctly a scene like this one:



A camera with a normal centre-weighted average metering is going to fail the reading of this and similar scenes.
What's more, he's going to use film, so no chance to recover errors with RAW.


I able to make mistake with any light meter Wink

I think good idea to open a new posts how to measure lights for newbies like me ... please!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
I think good idea to open a new posts how to measure lights for newbies like me ... please!
Hmmm.. measurement of light and exposure is a big science:) Depends which material are you shooting, if BW which developer are you using.. maybe something to be found is here: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum13/

or should i start writing an essay about the little i know about measuring? Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
berraneck wrote:
Attila wrote:
I think good idea to open a new posts how to measure lights for newbies like me ... please!
Hmmm.. measurement of light and exposure is a big science:) Depends which material are you shooting, if BW which developer are you using.. maybe something to be found is here: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum13/

or should i start writing an essay about the little i know about measuring? Smile


That would be great I look forward your knowledge! Thanks in advance!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
berraneck wrote:
Attila wrote:
I think good idea to open a new posts how to measure lights for newbies like me ... please!
Hmmm.. measurement of light and exposure is a big science:) Depends which material are you shooting, if BW which developer are you using.. maybe something to be found is here: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum13/

or should i start writing an essay about the little i know about measuring? Smile


Don't look at this link! This is evil! Oh my god, so many information there... arghhhh!


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My approach to light metering is quite simple: I use a couple of old Weston Master III light meters that are precise enough for my use and since most of us we're digital now, after some trial-and-error (a couple of shots) I use to get the right settings.
For film I relay on the wider latitude of the colour film...

Regards.

Jes.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
berraneck wrote:
measurement of light and exposure is a big science:) Depends which material are you shooting, if BW which developer are you using..


Of course these things are true but the number of variables in the process increase only in a second step, that is when you know how the thing works and want to "bend" rules to achieve a certain goal that you have in mind.

In the first step, one has to know how to properly expose to create a well balanced result, and this is done in a few standard ways, of course with some attention given to the different medium.

I will do some natural light metering tutorial when I have time. Metering natural light is one of the things that I know better in photography. I am not able to meter flashes yet but that would require really a different tutorial anyway.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Orio in advance!


PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cilinderman wrote:

That's why I really want a lightmeter. Photos must be superbly exposed Very Happy.
I'll look for some of the Gossen models. Which ones do you recommend?


I use two old Gossen standbys - the Luna Pro and the Pilot.

The Pilot is tiny and needs no batteries - you can stick it in your pocket easily. I almost always have it with me.

The Luna Pro is bigger (but easier to read), takes a pair of 625 PX batteries, and has a 'hold' function which can be handy. The batteries may be hard to find locally, but you can get them on eBay or from Batteries Plus. They last forever - I replaced mine about 5 years ago and they're still going fine.

Both will do incident/reflected readings. You can pick up a used Pilot for about $25-30US. The Luna Pro usually goes for twice that.

Just my 2 cents...


PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OregonJim wrote:
cilinderman wrote:

That's why I really want a lightmeter. Photos must be superbly exposed Very Happy.
I'll look for some of the Gossen models. Which ones do you recommend?


I use two old Gossen standbys - the Luna Pro and the Pilot.

The Pilot is tiny and needs no batteries - you can stick it in your pocket easily. I almost always have it with me.

The Luna Pro is bigger (but easier to read), takes a pair of 625 PX batteries, and has a 'hold' function which can be handy. The batteries may be hard to find locally, but you can get them on eBay or from Batteries Plus. They last forever - I replaced mine about 5 years ago and they're still going fine.

Both will do incident/reflected readings. You can pick up a used Pilot for about $25-30US. The Luna Pro usually goes for twice that.

Just my 2 cents...


Great! Thank you so much!


PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Pilot as well - it's a nice meter, and the cell should last for a long time as it spends most of its life in a dark clam shell case. But I find even normal indoor light starts to challenge it's sensitivity.

There are many variants of the Luna Pro or Luna Lux - some with extra capabilities, some with just the reflected and incident. Mine (SBC) uses standard household 9v batteries, which also seem to last forever.
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