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Meyer Primoplan 58/1.9 & Topcon RE 58/1.4
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Meyer Primoplan 58/1.9 & Topcon RE 58/1.4 Reply with quote
I am planning to get a standard mf lens and finally i decided to get one of them.
I want to know more about both lenses, and i want to hear comments about them. Thanks


PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome!

To get good answer to your question, please specify your camera and your budget for lens.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Primoplan is the less sharp 50mm prime I have ever tried. But I rate the lens as one of the best I have ever tried Very Happy

It has very nice characteristic bokeh. No other fast M42 50mm lens produce anything similar. The lens is also very well corrected for all forms of CA. Sharpness in cetre is good, but corners are soft. At f/8 corners are much better, but not as good as centre.

The lens is very light and small. There are two versions - early full-manual and later (a bit bigger) pre-set. I have both, I didn't perform any testing, but they seems to be close in optical performance. The later seems to have different coating. I use the later, because pre-set aperture is more practical.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The topcon is legendary, but has the exakta style bayonet mount which is not easily accommodated by other cameras.

patrickh


PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
patrickh wrote:
The topcon is legendary, but has the exakta style bayonet mount which is not easily accommodated by other cameras.


Actually, Exakta is reasonably well adaptable, having a long flange distance and narrow diameter. But over the course of time, Topcon added several extras to their Exakta clone bayonet. Exakta internal bayonet lenses fit all Topcon R bayonet cameras, but the inverse is not absolutely true. Accordingly, later Topcon lenses won't fit onto usual Exakta adapters, unless you grind them down at the conflicting spots.

Sevo


PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Topcon 58mm f1.4 Reply with quote
I once had a Topcon RE Super (original version) with the 58/1.4 - the Kodachromes from it were absolutely superb, although perhaps a little "warm" in tone. I think the UK photo magazine "Amateur Photographer" tested it back around 1963 and was a little less than wholly enthusiastic, but the one I had was very good.

By all means get the Topcon if it fits your camera and you're keen to get a high-speed lens that reflects the general state of high speed lens design around 1960. It should be easy to focus on most DSLRs provided the mirror and screen are set correctly - remember that there's virtually NO depth of field at f1.4

Despite much of what we read now, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that nearly all the f1.4 standard lenses from the 60s (that I've used) were nowhere near as sharp as their 1.7, f1.8, or f2 contemporaries at equal apertures down to f4 or f5.6. Well, except maybe the 1.4 Nikkor which was actually a good bit better than the 50/2 Nikkor-S.

Good hunting!


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Welcome!

To get good answer to your question, please specify your camera and your budget for lens.

My camera is Canon 20D so both lenses are usable with an adapter
Budget? around 250USD for the lens


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You have plenty of choices from 50mm lenses for this amount.

My suggestion is

Olympus OM 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Pancolar 50mm f1.8
Nikkor 50mm f1.4 AIS
Some of them lot cheaper than your budget.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
You have plenty of choices from 50mm lenses for this amount.

My suggestion is

Olympus OM 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Pancolar 50mm f1.8
Nikkor 50mm f1.4 AIS
Some of them lot cheaper than your budget.

The non-AI nikkor is usually a lot cheaper and there is a good supply. What is so good about the AI version?


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Attila wrote:
You have plenty of choices from 50mm lenses for this amount.

My suggestion is

Olympus OM 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Pancolar 50mm f1.8
Nikkor 50mm f1.4 AIS
Some of them lot cheaper than your budget.

The non-AI nikkor is usually a lot cheaper and there is a good supply. What is so good about the AI version?


Most of them were redesigned and some have also better quality from it. but the most important thing is that AI lenses could be used with modern Nikon SLR and DSLR. Old ones cannot (with some exceptions) at risk to ruin the camera.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote:
Attila wrote:
You have plenty of choices from 50mm lenses for this amount.

My suggestion is

Olympus OM 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Pancolar 50mm f1.8
Nikkor 50mm f1.4 AIS
Some of them lot cheaper than your budget.

The non-AI nikkor is usually a lot cheaper and there is a good supply. What is so good about the AI version?


Most of them were redesigned and some have also better quality from it. but the most important thing is that AI lenses could be used with modern Nikon SLR and DSLR. Old ones cannot (with some exceptions) at risk to ruin the camera.

Thanks for the explanation.

If I were to use a Nikkor lens on my Canon 40D then would it make any difference if I got the AI or non-AI lens in terms of compatability?


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Compatibility issue happen with Nikon cameras only.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Topcon 58mm f1.4 Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
Despite much of what we read now, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that nearly all the f1.4 standard lenses from the 60s (that I've used) were nowhere near as sharp as their 1.7, f1.8, or f2 contemporaries at equal apertures down to f4 or f5.6. Well, except maybe the 1.4 Nikkor which was actually a good bit better than the 50/2 Nikkor-S.
Good hunting!


I'll second that. Somewhere in the mid - late 60s the 50/2 Nikkor-H replaced the -S and was a noticeable improvement. New glass types and redesigned from seven elements to six.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
You have plenty of choices from 50mm lenses for this amount.

My suggestion is

Olympus OM 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Pancolar 50mm f1.8
Nikkor 50mm f1.4 AIS
Some of them lot cheaper than your budget.


I agree with the above. I have both Ai50/1.4S and Auto-S.C 50/1.4,
AI one is noticeably better at larger apertures. And Nikkor-H 50/2 is
a quite good lens, you wont regret it unless you need 1.4 speed.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
koji wrote:
Attila wrote:
You have plenty of choices from 50mm lenses for this amount.

My suggestion is

Olympus OM 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Pancolar 50mm f1.8
Nikkor 50mm f1.4 AIS
Some of them lot cheaper than your budget.


I agree with the above. I have both Ai50/1.4S and Auto-S.C 50/1.4,
AI one is noticeably better at larger apertures. And Nikkor-H 50/2 is
a quite good lens, you wont regret it unless you need 1.4 speed.


Is real that the F/2 H has more contrast (1 or two elements less) and the F/2 S has the best rresolution and less contrast?


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In fact hard to find any bad 50 and 135mm lens so you can take any from well known makers.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I cannot comment about contrast of the both S.C and H lenses, but
the resolution of H is better than wider aperture against S.C lens.

I think Nikkor-H 50/2 is almost comparable to Leica Summicron-R 50
as far as the resolution is concerned, colour rendition are different.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
koji wrote:


I think Nikkor-H 50/2 is almost comparable to Leica Summicron-R 50
as far as the resolution is concerned, colour rendition are different.

how about its performance at night? Smile


PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I mounted a Topcor to my A900. I used hand shaved James Lao M42 adapter (55mm, f1.4) to approx .7mm thickness. I also filed back the focus limit on the helical of the Topcor to allow focus past infinity to absorb the remaining thickness of the Lao adapter, which I tapped to match backplate of lens and screwed through with the original screws. Yours would be a lot easier Wink







Why did I bother? I cut my teeth with a Pentax K20D and one of my favorite lenses was the Cosina/Voigtlander 58/1.4 Nokton, which was based on this lens. Since there is no Nokton made for Sony, I did my best to fill the void.

Few early samples (all indoor, it ain't quite spring here yet).









I still need to shave another .1 or .2 mm off the adapter to hit inifinity conclusively at 1.4. By 5.6, I'm sharp at infinity, but it'll be fine when I get motivated to finish. Well worth the effort for my purposes. That said, if you aren't after a certain look, most of the other lenses mentioned will give you something to enjoy.


Kelly.


PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
In fact hard to find any bad 50 and 135mm lens so you can take any from well known makers.


On 135mm, I thought so too but from my 6-7 pcs. of 135mm, the Quantaray copy I have didn't measure to the rest. Luckily I got it for free and maybe the previous owner messed it up even though I didn't notice any external abnormalities .

cheers,
gil


PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quantarray, Hanimex, Porst etc.. are "noname" lenses you can find any variant between them mostly they are were very cheap with low IQ.

I would talk about from above level like Schneider,Nikkor, Carl Zeiss Jena, Meyer etc. "well known makers"


PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
highlights bokeh look perfect. Rarely saw this good in a today's lens.


PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Nikkor 50mm f2 S Reply with quote
estudleon wrote:
koji wrote:
Attila wrote:
You have plenty of choices from 50mm lenses for this amount.

My suggestion is

Olympus OM 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4
Carl Zeiss Pancolar 50mm f1.8
Nikkor 50mm f1.4 AIS
Some of them lot cheaper than your budget.


I agree with the above. I have both Ai50/1.4S and Auto-S.C 50/1.4,
AI one is noticeably better at larger apertures. And Nikkor-H 50/2 is
a quite good lens, you wont regret it unless you need 1.4 speed.


Is real that the F/2 H has more contrast (1 or two elements less) and the F/2 S has the best rresolution and less contrast?


Estudleon - I would say the old "S" lens was in no way as good as the later "H" - I recall that its ability to resolve detail towards the edge of the field was certainly not as good as other "main-name" lenses of the same period. I worked in photo-retail trade and had the chance to try all sorts of high grade lenses. 50mm f2 Nikkor-S at the time the "weak link" in Nikon lens family, but the Nikkor-H was much, much better. How I wish I had kept all those old negatives and slides ...
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