L. Berthiot 22 C Paris Vintage

[raymeone]

I got a yellow bronze vintage lens from the local second-hand market today.

The engraving on the lens body tells:
L. Berthiot
Fabricant Opticien
Paris

Around the front border:
APL. RAP. 22C

And the aperture setting is very unusual too, from today's point of view.
Start from 24 (wide open) to 2 (minimum aperture)

There is also something like serial number 22851, No. 3


The focus distance is actually at 22cm=220mm, the wide open aperture I figured out at around 5.6-7.2, compared with my CJZ sonnar 200/2.8.

The color rendition was not so good, but I guess at that time there was no color picture industry.
It has 10 blades and the Bokeh has "donut" spread out, but it is definitely NOT a "mirror focus" lens such as Minolta 500/8.

It becomes the smallest lens in my collection, however the focus distance is the largest...

This lens is actually fabricated before "Som Berthiot".
On the lens, it is written L. Berthiot meaning Louis Berthiot

[raymeone]

Some pictures of the lens

[Orio]

any taken photo to show?

[raymeone]

That's the dimension of the L.Berthiot

[raymeone]

I am very curious about the performance of such a old fellow, so I have done some test with CJZ sonnar 200/2.8

The first picture is taken with L. Berthiot 22 C, second is taken with CJZ 200

[raymeone]

I am just so curious about the age of this lens.
It is actually a 220mm lens, and considering its focus distance, I believe it should be made before the WWI.
Also the aperture setting is very strange, and the lens dimension is so small...for a 220mm lens.

Anyone knows the the story of this vintage, grandpa's grandpa's Louis Berthiot lens?

I have posted on some forums but nobody seemed to know...

I wish I could find an answer here!

[luisalegria]

Your Berthiot looks like it is a 19th century item.

There is a long writeup on Berthiot in the Vademecum.

There is some info here -

http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/Fabre/Fabre.html

M.Fabre's 1889 book shows that the Berthiot "APL.RAP." stoof for "Aplanat Rapide". Your lens could easily be from around that period.

[raymeone]

Merci luisalegria,

Can you tell me on which page have you found "Aplanat Rapide"?
Fortunately Monsieur Berthiot is French and I can read that old book.
wow...

[luisalegria]

Try M. Fabre at p. 121 which has a list of Berthiot "Aplanat Rapide" and "Aplanat Extra Rapide", and p.141, which has an illustration of the Berthiot "APL.RAP." inscription, though that description is probably for what is known as a "casket set", not a simple lens.

Surprisingly the Vademecum does not have information on such early Berthiot lenses. I am inclined to think that yours is from the 1880's-1890's.

[luisalegria]

Have a look at this - there is a photo of a very similar Berthiot lens, indeed as part of a casket set as described by M.Fabre. The seller says its from 1880, which is believable. It may be that yours was also once part of a a casket set. Does the front element unscrew ?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/APPAREIL-PHOTO-ANCIEN-CHAMBRE-BOIS-24x30-BERTHIOT-c1880_W0QQitemZ400020058930QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFR_IQ_Photovid%C3%A9o_Photo_Appareils_Argentiques?hash=item400020058930&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1526|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

[Sevo]

Very likely, that type of aperture scale is typical for casket sets.

Sevo

[raymeone]

to luisalegria,

Yes, I think that's a lens from the 1880's.

Actually I found in the page 140
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/Fabre/fabre_objo/fabre-obj/140.html

Dans les trois instruments qui composent cette série, on peut obtenir des longeurs focales de 14 et 22 centimetres pour le n°1, 19 et 28 centimetres pour le n°2, 23 et 37 centimètres pour le n°3...
Fig. 85.


What I have is a No. 3 serie, also engraved on the lens body.
Also from the pictures that I have taken, I doubt that it is actually a 23 centimètres one. But I still can't understand the meaning of 22 C.

Also the front part and the rear part can both be screwed off, leaving only the blade part (les diaphragmes). In fact I really had to screw them off the clean the 120+ years old thing.

Besides, les diaphragmes look just like M. Fabre's description in Fig. 92.
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/Fabre/fabre_objo/fabre-obj/146.html

Thanks again for your explanation!