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Manual Super Wide Angle Lenses
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Manual Super Wide Angle Lenses Reply with quote
What would you recommend for a good super wide-angle lens? I just lost out on a Vivitar 19mm f/3.8 on ebay so now i'm left wondering what other lenses are good options. I've read about a Nikkor 20mm and Tamron

Compared to Auto focus lenses such as the Canon 10-22 & Tokina 11-16, is the distortion for MF lenses similar/ the same? I'm looking for that cool super-wide angle distortion

Thanks!

Last edited by winmazing on Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can't offer anything on MF super-wides, but I can say that the Canon 10-22 in particular is around the widest you can get without the severe distortion. That's exactly why I'd like so much to own one, but I can't justify ~$600 for what would arguably be my least-used lens.

The Tokina 11-16 and Sigma 10-20 are also good choices for UWA lenses, primarily because they also minimize distortion.

You might consider a wide adapter that threads into a 'standard' lens's filter ring.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Manual Super Wide Angle Lenses Reply with quote
winmazing wrote:
What would you recommend for a good super wide-angle lens? I just lost out on a Vivitar 19mm f/3.5 on ebay so now i'm left wondering what other lenses are good options. I've read about a Nikkor 20mm and Tamron

Compared to Auto focus lenses such as the Canon 10-22 & Tokina 11-16, is the distortion for MF lenses similar/ the same? I'm looking for that cool super-wide angle distortion

Thanks!


Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 20mm f4 has no distorsion or close to zero.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
is distortion a frowned upon thing? i actually like the cool effect of these lenses


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
winmazing wrote:
is distortion a frowned upon thing? i actually like the cool effect of these lenses

I don't like it myself, but that's my own preference.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, winmazing! Smile


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree.

I prefer 0 (or close) distortion still at the cost of something of sharpness.

Now, the unique wide angle that use it's a flektogon 4/20. Not the sharpest, but enough and rectilinear.

And if you use it at F/11 and 16 taking advantage of its great DOF, in addition has excelent central sharpness and good borders too. I like it for landscapes (to my taste of course) and for architecture pics too.

Till now, I don't need anything else in the wide world.

Rino.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
is distortion a frowned upon thing? i actually like the cool effect of these lenses


Welcome to the group!

I think that the type of distortion you refer to enjoying is what I call perspective distortion.
You know when you close focus and have a very large depth of field and the close object looks dramatically larger than real life.
Or similar situations that can change the sense of scale.

The distortion most often thought of with Ultra wide angle is Barreling.
This makes straight lines looked curved and is highly annoying for architecture and the like.
For landscapes and flowers etc..........less of a problem.

As far as lenses go. There are some wide angle gems in manual focus.
Let us know what you are shooting with and surely the suggestions will start flowing at you.

Cheers
Andy


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the warm welcome. I've been browsing this site looking at all the reviews and searching ebay for the lenses. Just within the past week I've bought a Yashica 50mm f/1.9 & Nikkon Micro 55 f3.5 - we'll see how well these perform.

I already have a Pentax Super Takumar 50mm f/1.4 and it's such a fun lens. Challenging to use though.

Definitely looking to get a super-wide MF lens. I have a Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS, but at 17mm, it doesn't have the same effect as these super-wide angle lenses. - am i right?


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
winmazing wrote:
Definitely looking to get a super-wide MF lens. I have a Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS, but at 17mm, it doesn't have the same effect as these super-wide angle lenses. - am i right?

You are right. However, your EOS 450D has the smaller-crop sensor that my 400D and others have. The only way to enjoy the full benefit of MF wide offerings would be to step up to a full-frame sensor camera. Those come at a large price premium, however.

Besides all that, the 10mm focal length roughly translates to 16mm on crop cameras. I've been looking, and I've yet to find anything in a MF lens that's as wide as 16mm which is affordable(to me) and not a traditional fisheye with severe distortion. But if you enjoy the fisheye distortion, then be on the lookout for such a lens. They seem to also carry a price premium, though.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe a fisheye is what you seek.
The Zenitar 16 is a nice option if you can get a good one.
I got a great one from our member tenheis.

Also the super Tak 4/17 is excellent when you can find one.

As far as rectilinear lenses. The only MF ones you will find wider than 17mm are the Zeiss 3.5/15 ($1500-UP) and Sigma 3.5/14mm ($?).

I have the Sigma 14mm. On a cropped sensor like your Eos. It is a nice sharp lens with good control.

Full frame.....................Crap corners Sad
Really crap corners Sad

If you can find the Sigma for a good price I would not turn away if you plan to use it on a cropped sensor.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
In the MF world, 17mm is rather extreme superwide. Its wider (or effectively so on the DSLR sensor) than the 19-20mm MF lenses being discussed, and lenses that could exceed it in effective angle of view on the usual DSLR's are rather rare.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
so you're saying that on a crop body, a lens like the vivitar 19mm wide-angle would have limited effects? how would it compare to my canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS at 17mm?


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not exactly. A 19mm MF lens offers more image area than your crop sensor can capture, simply because it is of a smaller size than full-frame digitals or 35mm film. The image area captured by your crop sensor translates to roughly 1.6x the capture of a full-frame, when the images are compared as full-size from each respective camera type. So the Vivitar 19mm x 1.6 = 30.4mm.

See an illustration HERE.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 17mm setting on your kit lens will give you a wider-angle effect than a 19mm MF lens on your camera.

The only way the MF lens could yield a wider-angle effect than your kit lens is if its used on the full frame sensor it was designed for, such as a 35mm film camera or a full-frame DSLR like a Canon 5D.

To get a wider angle than what you already have, on your camera, you will need a 16mm lens or shorter. In the MF world there are 16, 15, 14mm and some even wider fisheyes, but few are easily available and reasonably priced.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is also the Distagon 15mm which is rectilinear (not a fisheye), but you will need a lot of money to buy one Shocked


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Asahi-Takumar and Nikon 15/3.5 rectilinear ultra-wides Reply with quote
both are rare, the Takumar maybe rarest, and both are expensive...


PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is there anything special about these MF super wide-angle lenses that make them different than a new auto focus lens at the same focal length?


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: price/performance ratio Reply with quote
Quote:
Is there anything special about these MF super wide-angle lenses that make them different than a new auto focus lens at the same focal length?


some MF film lenses IQ compete/compare favorably with modern lenses.

price/performance ratio is typically very low; better modern glass costing 10X as much for only a relatively minor gain in IQ is not atypical; modern lenses are typically faster, however.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Is there anything special about these MF super wide-angle lenses that make them different than a new auto focus lens at the same focal length?

On a typical crop-sensor DSLR, no.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ok i understand

so just because older MF lenses state they are 'super wide-angle' doesn't mean that their perspective distortion will be greater than say a AF lens at the same focal length?


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is correct.
Maybe you could post a shot (yours or not) that shows the "style" of image you are attracted to.
Surely you will get some suggestions.
Perspective distortion is a product of just that .............Perspective.

Search here for posts from spkennedy3000.
He has some brilliant landscapes taken with a Eos 5D and Zuiko 18mm.
I think you will find his look to be what you are seeking.

Maybe try a cheap used eos film camera.
Sure it's not digital but, you can get the results you desire without spending a fortune.

If you have $300-$400 to spend you can take a Bessa L and CV 15mm.
A pretty serious Ultra wide set up for a very nice price.
A few guys shoot that here now. Very impressive images. Again on film.

Here is one Kinda crap shot but, I think shows that "distortion"

CV Bess L and f4.5/15mm


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is also the Nikkor 3.5/15mm, which is rectilinear and a very good lense that is unfortunately very prone to flare. It has CRC (close correction) and at f8 everthing between about 1m and infinity is sharp, so you don't really have to bother with focusing.On ebay Germany you sometimes find offers at ridiculous fixed prices by professional sellers. I got mine (AI version) for about 400€ in an auction. Here is a picture @f8:

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