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CarbonR
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 1969 Location: Clermont-Ferrand, France
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: Comparing six lenses at 135mm |
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CarbonR wrote:
Here are 6 lenses tested at 135mm, one zoom in KAF2 mount, one prime in K, and 4 different Takumars in M42. All pics were taken on tripod, RAW > jpeg conversion only, crop100%, the lighting (sun) was almost constant during the test, a little bit more shining for the forst two lenses, I volontary corrected nothing.
It's here (2000x2000, 1800ko) : http://pix.nofrag.com/d/f/c/78d884bf27c0f5782f75c165b964f.html
_________________ Cameras : Canon 5D, Pentax K100D, Pentax 6x7, Spotmatic
Lenses : 15mm to 1000mm (24x36)
My websites : [FR & ENG]Takumar - the eyes of the Spotmatic : info about all Takumar lenses // Kogaku - My photo site
I am selling : Takumar lenses and rare Pentax bodies, pm me if you're interested in something [MFLenses feed-back]
Information on Takumar lenses with samples :
Wide angle : Takumar 15/3.5 15mm, Takumar 17/4 17mm, Takumar 18/11 18mm, Takumar 20/4.5 20mm, Takumar 24/3.5 24mm, Takumar 28/3.5 V1 28mm, Takumar 28/3.5 V2 28mm, Takumar 35/2 V1 35mm, Takumar 35/2 V2 35mm, Takumar 35/2.3 35mm, Takumar 35/3.5 35mm, Takumar 35/4 35mm
Standard : Takumar 50/1.4 V1 50mm, Takumar 50/1.4 V2 50mm, Takumar 50/3.5 50mm, Takumar 50/4 50mm, Takumar 55/2 55/1.8 55mm, Takumar 55/2.2 V1 55mm, Takumar 55/2.2 V2 55mm, Takumar 58/2 58mm, Takumar 58/2.4 58mm
Short tele : Takumar 83/1.9 83mm, Takumar 85/1.8 85/1.9 85mm, Takumar 85/1.8 85mm, Takumar 100/2 100mm, Takumar 100/3.5 100mm, Takumar 100/4 100mm, Takumar 105/2.8 V1 105mm, Takumar 105/2.8 V2 105mm, Takumar 120/2.8 120mm
Telephoto : Takumar 135/2.5 V1 135mm, Takumar 135/2.5 V2 135mm, Takumar 135/3.5 V1 135mm, Takumar 135/3.5 V2 135mm, Takumar 150/4 V1 150mm, Takumar 150/4 V2 150mm
Long tele : Takumar 200/3.5 200mm, Takumar 200/4 200mm, Takumar 200/5.6 200mm, Takumar 300/4 V1 300mm, Takumar 300/4 V2 300mm, Takumar 300/4 V3 300mm, Takumar 300/6.3 300mm, Takumar 400/5.6 400mm, Takumar 500/4.5 500mm, Takumar 500/5 500mm, Takumar 1000/8 V1 1000mm, Takumar 1000/8 V2 1000mm
Zoom : Zoom-Takumar 45~125/4 , Zoom-Takumar 70~150/4.5 , Zoom-Takumar 85~210/4.5 , Zoom-Takumar 135~600/6.7
Achromatic : Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar 85/4.5 , Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar 300/5.6 300mm |
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Spotmatic
Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 4045 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
Thanks for the great comparison work! Nice to see the differences.
While the old pre-set Takumar (I have that one also, also in Asahiflex mount and in chrome) seems a little less sharp it still strikes me that this old lens has almost no red fringing around highlights in the lens of your subject, while the newer ones do. Do you have an explanation?
I saw the same in older, non-MC lenses. For instance the Jupiter-11 and Tair-11-2 are old and not multicoated, but there's also no fringing to be seen. Strange, but I do not have much optical knowledge. What do the experts on this forum say? _________________ Peter - Moderator
Pentax K-5 + Pentax 645 + Canon 5D + Bessa RF 10,5cm Heliar, and a 'little' bag full of MF lenses. The lens list is * here *.
My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
Many forms of purple fringe are caused by axial (longitudinal) chromatic aberration. _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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Spotmatic
Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 4045 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
no-X wrote: |
Many forms of purple fringe are caused by axial (longitudinal) chromatic aberration. |
OK, but what does that mean in this case? Are you implying that the later lenses are less corrected for aberrations? _________________ Peter - Moderator
Pentax K-5 + Pentax 645 + Canon 5D + Bessa RF 10,5cm Heliar, and a 'little' bag full of MF lenses. The lens list is * here *.
My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
The most common form of CA is transverse CA = contrasty lines near image borders are surrounded by colored lines (red/cyan). This form of CA can be easily corrected in post-processing. This form of CA is visible mostly in in-focus areas. Changing aperture doesn't fix it. It doesn't influence bokeh.
But axial CA is almost invisible in IF areas, but it displays in (even slightly) out of DOF areas. Because this form of CA doesn't affect in-focus objects, it doesn't affect lens resolution - and the resolution was (and is) the main priority for many manufacturers. Why to care for axial CA, when ISO 12233 chart, kodak tables etc. must be in focus while picturing them, so this defect won't show?
Priority is resolution and correction of transverse CA - these can be easily measured, they are visible on testing charts and most of reviews judge lenses according to these aspects. Axial CA can't be easily measured, it affects bokeh (bokeh can't be measured too), so it is no wonder, that correction of axial CA is not the main priority for manufacturers.
I'm not expert, but I think that axial CA is a fallout of other corrections, especially of those, which increase sharpness. Majority of old (40+) lenses don't show this issue. _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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indianadinos
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 1310 Location: Toulouse, France
Expire: 2011-12-05
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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indianadinos wrote:
Hello,
Thanks for the great explanation ...
Best regards _________________ Please visit my blogs Shooting with a Pentax K10D / FF Visions
Takumar: 24/3.5, 28/3.5, 35/2, 35/3.5, 50/1.4, 55/1.8, 85/1.8, 105/2.8, 120/2.8, 135/3.5, 150/4, 200/4
Pentax-K: M28/2.8, K28/3.5, M50/1.4, A50/1.7, M50/4 Macro, K85/1.8, K105/2.8, K135/2.5, M200/4, M70-150/4
Zeiss: Flektogon 20/2.8, 20/4, 35/2.4, 35/2.8, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Biotar 58/2, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer: Primagon 35/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Orestor 135/2.8
Schacht/Steinheil: Travenar 90/2.8, Travenon 135/4.5, Quinar 135/2.8, Quinar 135/3.5
Russian: MIR 37B, Industar 50/3.5, Helios 44M & 44M-2, Jupiter 37A
P6: Flektogon 50/4, Biometar 80/2.8, Orestor 300/4
Nikkor: Nikkor-O 35/2, Micro 55/3.5, Nikkor-S 50/1.4, Nikkor-Q 135/2.8
Fuji: EBC 28/3.5, EBC 55/3.5 Macro, EBC 135/2.5
Misc Lenses: Kiron 105/2.8 Macro, Tamron SP90/2.5
... and a few other Vivitar, Tamron, Sigma and Soligor lenses ...
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1387 Location: Berlin, DE
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
no-X wrote: |
Many forms of purple fringe are caused by axial (longitudinal) chromatic aberration. |
I believe that purple fringing is mostly caused by electrons bleeding between individual sensors of a digital camera's light-sensitive matrix. I've never seen purple fringing on film. This way, purple fringing is not CA. In this theory, older lenses don't have purple fringing because of their lower contrast and acutance. _________________ List of lenses |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
In this case, there would be no difference in purple fringe intensity between different lenses and existance of purple fringe wouldn't be dependant on DOF. I wouldn't be dependant on aperture settings, too. But in reality, it depends on particular lens, aperture value and DOF. Digital sensors can amplify these defect (because they can be more sensitive to specific wave-length), but they aren't the cause.
Sensor bloom and purple fringe are two different phenomenons. It would be quite difficult to explain it in English for me, so here is scientific explanation...
Quote: |
Purple fringing is often blamed on sensor bloom, which is odd as blooming is a quite different phenomenon [14, 15]. In fact, there are as many arguments against sensor bloom as there are in favor of chromatic aberration to account for purple fringing. The examples shown on the present page are all demonstrably due to the lens and not to the sensor. Sensor bloom has no known color preference, and if it had, it would not change its colors upon defocusing a lens (as in Fig. 3) or upon swapping lenses (as in Fig. 4). The list of arguments is long [16]. |
more info and examples:
http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/chromatic.html _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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Spotmatic
Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 4045 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
On a side note: at home I have cable TV with a HD Receiver and a Samsung HD Plasma screen. Some of the channels I like are National Geographic HD, Discovery HD and History Channel HD. I cannot remember things like CA from the past, but in several documentaries (apparently shot with digital HD cameras) I see green and purple fringing all over the place, most notably in wide angle shots. Is this a sign of not-so-good lenses being used? _________________ Peter - Moderator
Pentax K-5 + Pentax 645 + Canon 5D + Bessa RF 10,5cm Heliar, and a 'little' bag full of MF lenses. The lens list is * here *.
My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 1767 Location: Nice, France
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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ChrisLilley wrote:
Spotmatic wrote: |
no-X wrote: |
Many forms of purple fringe are caused by axial (longitudinal) chromatic aberration. |
OK, but what does that mean in this case? Are you implying that the later lenses are less corrected for aberrations? |
I think it means that the later lenses are computer-optimised - but for other things, like in-focus sharpness and removal of transverse CA. That means that longitudinal CA is either not optimised for, or is actually made worse by optimising for other things.
Transverse CA is can be removed (or at least reduced) during RAW processing. Longitudinal CA cannot, it seems. _________________ Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t. Key: Ai-P, Ai, Ai'ed, AiS
Camera: Nikon D90, D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 K, AI'ed | N.K. Nikkor-N 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor-N.C 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Арсенал (Arsenal) Мир-24Н (Mir-24N) 35mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | ЛЗОС (LZOS) Юпитер-9 (Jupiter-9) 85mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL | Nikkor-P 105mm f/2.5 pre-Ai, Ai'ed | Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 | Schneider Kreuznach Componon 105mm f/5.6 | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED AiS | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai (full equipment list) |
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